Pricing of vintage guitars

richardhomer · October 2016

musicman100 said:

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

Tbh I disagree on a guitar been a dog or have bad tone to be in excellent condition.
because both playability and sound of any guitar old or new is tollally subjective.
so just because one person thinks it's a dog another guy might love it. same with tone/sound. any guitar is only as good as the player.
there's many reason for mint guitars.
been bought to learn on n then put under the bed after giving up.
people sadly passing away.
a lot of guitars back in the day weren't expensive.
imo a lot of this talk about different grades is from dealers trying to screw as much money as they can out of a guitar.

I agree that there are some minters that are great out there, perhaps my initial reply was too broad for you. For experience though I have found that there's a reason that some guitars have loads of play wear and refrets - it's because they sound so good.

And my reason for the 'grades' post was not that I'm a dealer (which I'm not) it was more to try and put into context the broad context of the banner 'Vintage Guitars' - where all vintage guitars are not equal.

as I've already said it's all subjective but what do I know I'm only an amateur. lol

I've met Neil - he's a lovely bloke - and clearly massively into old guitars. He appreciates good ones and - as is evident from his posts on here - gigs them, rather that simply collecting them.

The first vintage guitar I owned was a near-mint sunburst '65 Strat. Without question, it was better than the late 70s one I owned when I bought it.

Having owned it for about 18 months, I tried a very battered '63 in Fiesta Red. It wiped the floor with the '65 - so a loan was obtained and I bought it. As a 'collectors' piece' it was a disaster. Refretted and a neck refinish.... As a musical instrument it was in a different league. I kept the '65 as a 'spare' - but I literally never 'chose' to play - so it eventually got moved on.

I don't doubt there are the odd mint vintage guitars that are exceptional - but that one was merely 'average' - so from my admitted limited experience, I tend to believe the 'best of breed' tend to be the ones which have seen a lot of use - a kind of 'natural selection', if you like....

My '64 335 has had a headstock repair - so I bought it fairly cheaply. As a guitar, it's a stunner. It won't ever be 'that' collectible - it'll always be a great guitar....

fretfinder · October 2016

Great stuff in this thread, lots to agree with from some very knowledgeable folk including Neil.

A few years ago I bought a 1955 'birth year' Junior (yes, I am an old git) which was something I'd lusted after literally for decades. Back in the day I went to see Mott The Hoople many times before their glam years and Mick Ralphs always used to play a Junior then and I'd wanted one ever since those days.

Mine was a lovely guitar, very light, beautiful neck etc. It sounded good but not angels warbling from heaven good. The bridge was 'leaning' as can happen on the early ones so I got CGX to sort it out as I wanted to play and gig the damn thing and not just hang it on the wall. They also added an aged Tone Pros bridge/tailpiece and I kept the original one safe, and they fitted a dot inlay they had lying around as one was missing. The tuners were looking brittle so I changed them myself for Fake58 replicas and even aged the buttons a bit more, very lightly with wire wool and shoe polish! I did a gig with the guitar but didn't think it really cut through enough so I consigned it to sofa noodling thereafter.

Then after a year or so I concluded it was daft having that much money tied up in a guitar that I didn't gig and that wasn't a pristine collector's investment piece, so I asked CGX to sell it for me. They did so within a couple of months and I even made a few bob on what I'd paid for it.

While the ownership of that guitar was a very enjoyable journey for me, I realised afterwards that the allure of a birth year guitar had been, for me, more about the chase and nabbing the trophy, than loving it on a long-term basis. Had it been 'the one', highly giggable and sounding like choirs of angels, without a leaning bridge and a dot inlay missing, maybe it would have been a keeper. Although having said that, I might not have been able to afford a 'better' one in the first place.

So I've successfully seen off the birth year guitar drug, but would I want another Junior? Hell yes! But I wouldn't get one from the 'leaning bridge' era after my previous experience, I'd go for a 57, 58 or 59 guitar. Only problem is I'd like it to be all-original but I really don't want to pay as much as £4K!

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j359/Fretfinder/2013-05-07171212.jpg

IvisonGuitars · October 2016

@fretfinder ;Great to hear you're a Mick Ralphs/Mott the Hoople fan Nigel!

If if you don't mind a well repaired headstock break, I.e. Player grade, you could be into a 57 to 60 junior for around £2.5k. Worth a thought?

Also, it's interesting you mention your '55. When I bought mine it was all original apart from a replaced bridge & the leaning studs had been fixed. It was nice, sounded beautiful but played like a dog so I changed out the crumbling tuners for some Fake 58's and had it refretted. What a difference. It became my main guitar.

So I totally agree that some vintage guitars need work to get them into a great, playable state. But in my mind, that's part of the charm and also adds to the intrinsic value.

musicman100 · October 2016

For an entry level vintage guitar i think the fender musicmasters are worth a good look.
I all most bought a 59 musicmaster from Kempton park show.

Bridgehouse · October 2016

miserneil said:

@fretfinder ;Great to hear you're a Mick Ralphs/Mott the Hoople fan Nigel!

If if you don't mind a well repaired headstock break, I.e. Player grade, you could be into a 57 to 60 junior for around £2.5k. Worth a thought?

Also, it's interesting you mention your '55. When I bought mine it was all original apart from a replaced bridge & the leaning studs had been fixed. It was nice, sounded beautiful but played like a dog so I changed out the crumbling tuners for some Fake 58's and had it refretted. What a difference. It became my main guitar.

So I totally agree that some vintage guitars need work to get them into a great, playable state. But in my mind, that's part of the charm and also adds to the intrinsic value.

Funnily enough I've just put fake58s on the Special DC to preserve my original knobs (fnarr) and they are super slick and stable. Kitted out with compensated bridge and new knobs now. Am booked in for a refret as the originals are low cos I want it 'just so'

monoamine · October 2016

I am very happy with my '59 junior from @miserneil ... needs a refret but is a killer guitar already so I very much suspect that will take it into the stratosphere. Regarding the price, well, i sold an R9 at a significant profit in order to fund the junior, so really only paid around £2.5k for it

IvisonGuitars · October 2016

monoamine said:

I am very happy with my '59 junior from @miserneil ... needs a refret but is a killer guitar already so I very much suspect that will take it into the stratosphere. Regarding the price, well, i sold an R9 at a significant profit in order to fund the junior, so really only paid around £2.5k for it

A refret?! Seriously??

monoamine · October 2016

Yeah.. there are some grooves on the first few that make cowboy chords buzz. I'm not a luthier so it may just need a level and set up but definitely need a bit of professional help

IvisonGuitars · October 2016

monoamine said:

Yeah.. there are some grooves on the first few that make cowboy chords buzz. I'm not a luthier so it may just need a level and set up but definitely need a bit of professional help

Ah right. I can't say I noticed that when I had it but I'm sure a level and recrown would be fair less drastic and cheaper than a refret. There is plenty of meat on them to withstand many levels and dresses IMO :-)

musicman100 · October 2016

miserneil said:

monoamine said:

Yeah.. there are some grooves on the first few that make cowboy chords buzz. I'm not a luthier so it may just need a level and set up but definitely need a bit of professional help

Ah right. I can't say I noticed that when I had it but I'm sure a level and recrown would be fair less drastic and cheaper than a refret. There is plenty of meat on them to withstand many levels and dresses IMO :-)

This just shows what I was saying regarding it all been very subjective and the last couple of post shows that.

Bridgehouse · October 2016

To be fair, a modern guitar can have just the same level of subjectivity. My LP Special is booked in for a refret mainly as it has a very very slight rising tongue - which can only be fixed with a refret. For most, it probably wouldn't matter/be noticed - but I know it's there and want it done.

musicman100 · October 2016

Bridgehouse said:

To be fair, a modern guitar can have just the same level of subjectivity. My LP Special is booked in for a refret mainly as it has a very very slight rising tongue - which can only be fixed with a refret. For most, it probably wouldn't matter/be noticed - but I know it's there and want it done.

Bridgehouse said:

To be fair, a modern guitar can have just the same level of subjectivity. My LP Special is booked in for a refret mainly as it has a very very slight rising tongue - which can only be fixed with a refret. For most, it probably wouldn't matter/be noticed - but I know it's there and want it done.

Been subjective is right across the board in general life.

Bridgehouse · October 2016

^ So much so that I said it thrice

richardhomer · October 2016

Bridgehouse said:

^ So much so that I said it thrice

He wouldn't let it lie....

musicman100 · October 2016

Bridgehouse said:

^ So much so that I said it thrice

Sorry It was just me been backwards on my Samsung tablet. Lol

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Pricing of vintage guitars

Comments