Pricing of vintage guitars

richardhomer

musicman100 said:
Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Not really - they are made of Honduran mahogany and have Brazilian Rosewood boards and were made in Gibson's 'Golden Era'.

When they were new, they were about a third of the price of a Les Paul Standard.

They are an awful lot cheaper than that now....

musicman100

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

peteri said:

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Ah ha, but have you ever played an awesome 50's Junior?

yes I have played 50s Jr's but not one than I wanted to pay 4000 for. 

koneguitarist

Been fortunate in having owned quite a few vintage guitars over the years, but thinking about it the '54 tele I bought was not as good as a MIJ 62 reissue that I had. The '63 strat was not as good as the JV 62 reissue etc etc
But I had to buy them as my heroes owned vintage guitars, luckily it's "been there, done that" now so I buy what I need as opposed to what I lusted after.
new guitars are so much more consistent, I think if we all played guitars blindfolded we would all buy different stuff. 

welshboyo

musicman100 said:

welshboyo said:

Not to be the getting cleaver guy - what machineheads should a 60's Tennessean have?

Only interested to hear your expert thoughts as I have one...not for sale though

<a href="http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/davidmountan123/media/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w494/davidmountan123/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg"/></a>

Hmm, OK..

I have an early 60's Tennesseean, 61/62 and was owned since new by my late father and it has open backed Klusons on it - that pic shows Van Ghents (I think) and I have never been able to get to the bottom of why this definitely "all original" Tenny of mine has Klusons??!!

IvisonGuitars

musicman100 said:

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

peteri said:

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Ah ha, but have you ever played an awesome 50's Junior?

yes I have played 50s Jr's but not one than I wanted to pay 4000 for. 

Ah, some you haven't played an 'awesome' one then.... ;-)

That said, I have played a couple of early 60's DC's that I wouldn't have given £4 quid for.

So, I agree, they are not all great.

musicman100

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

peteri said:

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Ah ha, but have you ever played an awesome 50's Junior?

yes I have played 50s Jr's but not one than I wanted to pay 4000 for. 

Ah, some you haven't played an 'awesome' one then.... ;-)

That said, I have played a couple of early 60's DC's that I wouldn't have given £4 quid for.

So, I agree, they are not all great.welshboyo said:

musicman100 said:

welshboyo said:

Not to be the getting cleaver guy - what machineheads should a 60's Tennessean have?

Only interested to hear your expert thoughts as I have one...not for sale though

<a href="http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/davidmountan123/media/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w494/davidmountan123/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg"/></a>

Hmm, OK..

I have an early 60's Tennesseean, 61/62 and was owned since new by my late father and it has open backed Klusons on it - that pic shows Van Ghents (I think) and I have never been able to get to the bottom of why this definitely "all original" Tenny of mine has Klusons??!!

By the way ur talking I guess you have questioned the tuners before then?

Have you got a picture of urs?
Tbh its very hard to 100% say as gretsch n i guess other companies back in the day did through out guitars with different parts on ( Friday afternoon guitars )  Lol. 

musicman100

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

peteri said:

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Ah ha, but have you ever played an awesome 50's Junior?

yes I have played 50s Jr's but not one than I wanted to pay 4000 for. 

Ah, some you haven't played an 'awesome' one then.... ;-)

That said, I have played a couple of early 60's DC's that I wouldn't have given £4 quid for.

So, I agree, they are not all great.

Imo it's the same with other makes to.
But ur right if you find a good one that's it you buy it. 

Bridgehouse

The recent spate of vintage threads have been really interesting. Specially as I've just dropped a lot of cash on a vintage. 

I actually don't think there's a straight answer to this one. It's human nature. We value things from the past. We hanker for a time long gone. Well, some of us do anyway. If we didn't there would be no Antiques market. There wouldn't be any demand for those old 18th/19th century country cottages. There would be no vintage or classic car shows. 

Are vintage guitars better than modern? As Sir Humphrey Appleby would say: "Yes, but more accurately, No."

It depends on you. Some will prefer that old cottage or that classic runabout, some prefer a brand new house build and want to change their car every year. Same with guitars. Some see them as utilitarian, some see them as pieces of art. 

For me, I like the feel of vintage guitars. Do they play better? I don't think that's the right question. I think they feel different. Partly the ageing, partly the wood, partly the played in feel. 

There is, of course a big difference between being an enthusiast/player and a collector. I don't cork sniff. I don't care if some bits are not original. Just so long as I can feel what I'm looking for. 

I understand why collectors collect. But I don't relate to it. I relate to collecting vintage guitars as much as I do someone who collects Wedgwood or Stamps. Guitars are there to be played. Not locked away. 

As for the price, well - that depends on why you have an interest in a Vintage. If you are a player and an enthusiast, like me, and I suspect like many on here (looking at you @miserneil) you're looking for that affordable, awesome player that feels right. 

If you are a collector, you will pay an untold amount of money for a real dog just so long as it's all original, rare as hens teeth, and is something you must have in your collection. 

Luckily for us enthusiasts, the collectors disregard the slightly battered, refinished, oddball examples.

Oh, and for the record - I think some modern CS or Luthier Built guitars are utterly incredible - and possibly some of the best ever built.

jimmyguitar

I'll chip in here, being a player/collector (first and foremost a player...). I am drawn to pre 90's Gibsons (80's was a really good decade for the big G) and 60's Fenders and the occasional oddball (Levin, Silvertone, Watkins etc). 

I don't know what it is but new guitars, no matter how well they play, are of no interest to me at all. Maybe as utilitarian items but they don't stir anything in me.

I love the chase of finding an old gem and prefer a good beaten 'player'. However, I'm really picky when it comes to certain things... I don't mind heavy player wear (cool) but messed around with electrics, finish or breaks and I'm out (unless they're going cheap!).

I think of all new production guitars as imitations of the real deal and will do all I can on a fairly limited budget to achieve the real thing.

I currently own a beautiful original '62 strat and various all original 60's Gibson ES 345/355's and acoustics (Hummingbird, J45/Dove) and I LOVE them all. Each one is used at least weekly and I gig them all. 

I am happy with the prices I paid for my guitars and they make me happy so that's a good thing! Look out for a NGD re the strat!

IvisonGuitars

Bridgehouse said:

The recent spate of vintage threads have been really interesting. Specially as I've just dropped a lot of cash on a vintage. 

I actually don't think there's a straight answer to this one. It's human nature. We value things from the past. We hanker for a time long gone. Well, some of us do anyway. If we didn't there would be no Antiques market. There wouldn't be any demand for those old 18th/19th century country cottages. There would be no vintage or classic car shows. 

Are vintage guitars better than modern? As Sir Humphrey Appleby would say: "Yes, but more accurately, No."

It depends on you. Some will prefer that old cottage or that classic runabout, some prefer a brand new house build and want to change their car every year. Same with guitars. Some see them as utilitarian, some see them as pieces of art. 

For me, I like the feel of vintage guitars. Do they play better? I don't think that's the right question. I think they feel different. Partly the ageing, partly the wood, partly the played in feel. 

There is, of course a big difference between being an enthusiast/player and a collector. I don't cork sniff. I don't care if some bits are not original. Just so long as I can feel what I'm looking for. 

I understand why collectors collect. But I don't relate to it. I relate to collecting vintage guitars as much as I do someone who collects Wedgwood or Stamps. Guitars are there to be played. Not locked away. 

As for the price, well - that depends on why you have an interest in a Vintage. If you are a player and an enthusiast, like me, and I suspect like many on here (looking at you @miserneil) you're looking for that affordable, awesome player that feels right. 

If you are a collector, you will pay an untold amount of money for a real dog just so long as it's all original, rare as hens teeth, and is something you must have in your collection. 

Luckily for us enthusiasts, the collectors disregard the slightly battered, refinished, oddball examples.

Oh, and for the record - I think some modern CS or Luthier Built guitars are utterly incredible - and possibly some of the best ever built.

Testify @Bridgehouse, my man, Testify!!  

musicman100

jimmyguitar said:

I'll chip in here, being a player/collector (first and foremost a player...). I am drawn to pre 90's Gibsons (80's was a really good decade for the big G) and 60's Fenders and the occasional oddball (Levin, Silvertone, Watkins etc). 

I don't know what it is but new guitars, no matter how well they play, are of no interest to me at all. Maybe as utilitarian items but they don't stir anything in me.

I love the chase of finding an old gem and prefer a good beaten 'player'. However, I'm really picky when it comes to certain things... I don't mind heavy player wear (cool) but messed around with electrics, finish or breaks and I'm out (unless they're going cheap!).

I think of all new production guitars as imitations of the real deal and will do all I can on a fairly limited budget to achieve the real thing.

I currently own a beautiful original '62 strat and various all original 60's Gibson ES 345/355's and acoustics (Hummingbird, J45/Dove) and I LOVE them all. Each one is used at least weekly and I gig them all. 

I am happy with the prices I paid for my guitars and they make me happy so that's a good thing! Look out for a NGD re the strat!

If they make you happy that's all that matters 

welshboyo

musicman100 said:

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

peteri said:

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Ah ha, but have you ever played an awesome 50's Junior?

yes I have played 50s Jr's but not one than I wanted to pay 4000 for. 

Ah, some you haven't played an 'awesome' one then.... ;-)

That said, I have played a couple of early 60's DC's that I wouldn't have given £4 quid for.

So, I agree, they are not all great.welshboyo said:

musicman100 said:

welshboyo said:

Not to be the getting cleaver guy - what machineheads should a 60's Tennessean have?

Only interested to hear your expert thoughts as I have one...not for sale though

<a href="http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/davidmountan123/media/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w494/davidmountan123/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg"/></a>

Hmm, OK..

I have an early 60's Tennesseean, 61/62 and was owned since new by my late father and it has open backed Klusons on it - that pic shows Van Ghents (I think) and I have never been able to get to the bottom of why this definitely "all original" Tenny of mine has Klusons??!!

By the way ur talking I guess you have questioned the tuners before then?

Have you got a picture of urs?
Tbh its very hard to 100% say as gretsch n i guess other companies back in the day did through out guitars with different parts on ( Friday afternoon guitars )  Lol. 

I have questioned them yes only as I had to source a replacement (which I did find in the end) everyone I approached (all the vintage dealers and Gretsch specialists in the US) didn't have any and were telling me they were from an earlier model so could have been a parts bin special!!! Just goes to show I suppose that there are exceptions to the rule!!

JookyChap

Having read so many horror stories, and kinda thinking I might go for something vintage next year (the, seemingly unlikely big 5 & 0,) who would those that know recommend in the UK as a vintage seller? 

jimmyguitar

JookyChap said:

Having read so many horror stories, and kinda thinking I might go for something vintage next year (the, seemingly unlikely big 5 & 0,) who would those that know recommend in the UK as a vintage dealer

David Pym
Glenns Guitars

JookyChap

Cheers @jimmyguitar - I can see a year of obsession in my tea leaves/future

musicman100

jimmyguitar said:

JookyChap said:

Having read so many horror stories, and kinda thinking I might go for something vintage next year (the, seemingly unlikely big 5 & 0,) who would those that know recommend in the UK as a vintage dealer

David Pym
Glenns Guitars

Have you seen mr pym's prices? Lol 

musicman100

JookyChap said:

Having read so many horror stories, and kinda thinking I might go for something vintage next year (the, seemingly unlikely big 5 & 0,) who would those that know recommend in the UK as a vintage seller? 

I wouldn't buy from a dealer.
Take ur time, do ur home work, follow the prices on guitar types that you fancy n then try to buy private if you can. 

Bridgehouse

musicman100 said:

jimmyguitar said:

JookyChap said:

Having read so many horror stories, and kinda thinking I might go for something vintage next year (the, seemingly unlikely big 5 & 0,) who would those that know recommend in the UK as a vintage dealer

David Pym
Glenns Guitars

Have you seen mr pym's prices? Lol 

I bought from him. I Lol'd at his prices.

I didn't pay his list price. He was a gent to deal with and enjoyed a good old fashioned negotiation.

(I actually paid under the vintage price guide 2016 low end)

@JookyChap - there's a lot of really knowledgable folk on here - I'm sure one could be persuaded to go with you and cork sniff/be a voice of reason 

JookyChap

Cheers chaps - tis a long way off - but I think I'll have fun educating myself

Mooster

I've read all the comments on the thread so far and I agree with them all. But my take on it is, I've played a lot of new guitars and a lot of vintage guitars and in my mind its not about new vs. old but good vs. bad. A good vintage guitar has two plus points: it's good and it's vintage whereas a good new guitar only has one: it's good. However I have sold my two vintage guitars for two reasons: the first one is that they were on the verge of needing work done on them: a refret and new nut. This would have trashed their value. I was thinking about putting bigger frets and replacing the 3 way with a 5 way on it but I was torn between losing it's originality and using it as an instrument. In the end it was no longer a musical instrument but also a collector piece and investment (at least, I did not want it to lose value). That just bugged me. The second reason is I can go into any top guitar store and play replicas of vintage guitars and maybe it isn't the same but it's close enough. But it had the advantage in that I could play without fear of breaking the thing, it wasn't as fragile, and the playability (modern frets, fretboard radius, etc.) suited me more.