Today's Trumpy Tantrum

Snap

Adam_MD said:

You're totally correct the people did vote approx 2.9 million more Americans voted against trump than for him.

the point I was making, is the popiular vote doesn;t matter - the americans have a peculiar (ish) electoral system - they know how it works, its their tough luck if they don't like the result.

Our electoral system saw UKIP get naff all even though (something like) 4 million people voted for them. You have your system, you operate within it, you suck it up if you don't get the result you like.

My only point in this was how it seems like the anti Trump activist brigade are only now making their voices heard when IMO they should have been doing it all along to prevent this farce occurring in the first place.

We disgree on whether Trump will have his powerbase hobbled, time will tell. I doubt it because despite his rhetoric, his behaviour, his track record and his blatant bullshit, from day one, the Republican party backed him and picked him. Throughout his nomination process, I would argue that any one of his rivals would have been a better choice (even that eel Cruz FFS), but they backed Trump. I think this backing will continue unless he makes some catastrophic move. Mind you, that isn't unlikely.

I think he is dangerous, unpredictable and a real nob, but I think he is going to have a bit of a free rein in doing what he wants.A load of protesters won't stop him at all.

Adam_MD

ThePrettyDamned said:

This is absolutely fucking atrocious. 

I really, really try to see things from all perspectives and see the devil's advocate side of things, but this just seems to be something that is universally harmful. And why? 

Seriously, what the fuck does he have to gain from this?

He's just doing what he was told by his donors I seriously doubt he cares one way or the other.

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

Seriously, what the fuck does he have to gain from this?

Approval from the religious right.

Snap

@ThePrettyDamned

America is a country of divisions. Aside from parts of the east and west coast (california, NY, Mass) a lot of the country is pretty religious and god fearing. A lot of this is also religion of the christian fundamental and intolerant type, especially in the mid west. The sort of places where if you ain't a god fearing red neck, you are only a few steps from being the devils spawn.

Recently there was a pretty big survey done where it showed that the average american (if there is such a thing tbh) would sooner trust a convicted rapist than an atheist. The sort of good god fearing folk who'd shoot any black person who approached their house. Imagine what they'd do to a black atheist homosexual.

Trump is playing right into the hands of these religious fruitbats.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Seriously, what the fuck does he have to gain from this?

Approval from the religious right.

And what do they get? 

Seriously, I don't understand. Why would it bother them that someone who isn't religious (or maybe is) wants to have an abortion. Why does it bother them so much? They're not the ones doing it, or having the procedure performed. 

It's hardly a procedure that's taken lightly... 

ICBM

It's what *he* gets that's important. By gaining the approval of the religious right and their Republican Party congressmen, he makes it much less likely that they will try to block some of the rest of what he wants to do. They don't actually gain much other than the warm satisfaction that they've stuck it to those damn liberals.

ie, a typical Trump business deal where one side gets a lot more out of it than the other.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

It's what *he* gets that's important. By gaining the approval of the religious right and their Republican Party congressmen, he makes it much less likely that they will try to block some of the rest of what he wants to do. They don't actually gain much other than the warm satisfaction that they've stuck it to those damn liberals.

ie, a typical Trump business deal where one side gets a lot more out of it than the other.

Hooray for creating poverty and suffering needlessly in a progressive world that should promote freedom of choice! 

ThePrettyDamned

I should add, I'm very not-anti religion. 

But using religion as a political tool just seems so much like it should have ended decades ago. 

ICBM

Do you think the religious/conservative right in America give a shit about that? They're actively opposed to progressive values and freedom of choice, other than in the narrow commercial sense.

Adam_MD

Snap said:

Adam_MD said:

You're totally correct the people did vote approx 2.9 million more Americans voted against trump than for him.

the point I was making, is the popiular vote doesn;t matter - the americans have a peculiar (ish) electoral system - they know how it works, its their tough luck if they don't like the result.

Our electoral system saw UKIP get naff all even though (something like) 4 million people voted for them. You have your system, you operate within it, you suck it up if you don't get the result you like.

My only point in this was how it seems like the anti Trump activist brigade are only now making their voices heard when IMO they should have been doing it all along to prevent this farce occurring in the first place.

We disgree on whether Trump will have his powerbase hobbled, time will tell. I doubt it because despite his rhetoric, his behaviour, his track record and his blatant bullshit, from day one, the Republican party backed him and picked him. Throughout his nomination process, I would argue that any one of his rivals would have been a better choice (even that eel Cruz FFS), but they backed Trump. I think this backing will continue unless he makes some catastrophic move. Mind you, that isn't unlikely.

I think he is dangerous, unpredictable and a real nob, but I think he is going to have a bit of a free rein in doing what he wants.A load of protesters won't stop him at all.

Again the march wasn't just about Trump he was a very large part of it but not the only factor.

JezWynd

Adam_MD said:

Snap said:

Adam_MD said:

You're totally correct the people did vote approx 2.9 million more Americans voted against trump than for him.

the point I was making, is the popiular vote doesn;t matter - the americans have a peculiar (ish) electoral system - they know how it works, its their tough luck if they don't like the result.

Our electoral system saw UKIP get naff all even though (something like) 4 million people voted for them. You have your system, you operate within it, you suck it up if you don't get the result you like.

My only point in this was how it seems like the anti Trump activist brigade are only now making their voices heard when IMO they should have been doing it all along to prevent this farce occurring in the first place.

We disgree on whether Trump will have his powerbase hobbled, time will tell. I doubt it because despite his rhetoric, his behaviour, his track record and his blatant bullshit, from day one, the Republican party backed him and picked him. Throughout his nomination process, I would argue that any one of his rivals would have been a better choice (even that eel Cruz FFS), but they backed Trump. I think this backing will continue unless he makes some catastrophic move. Mind you, that isn't unlikely.

I think he is dangerous, unpredictable and a real nob, but I think he is going to have a bit of a free rein in doing what he wants.A load of protesters won't stop him at all.

Again the march wasn't just about Trump he was a very large part of it but not the only factor.

Can't agree with that. It was all about Trump. American women are horrified that a sexist, abortion hating, pussy grabber is the leader of their country.

Trump's Waterloo might just be Israel - if not directly, then the fallout it creates as Netanwhats'is name becomes more emboldened (he obviously sees a kindred spirit in Trump). Trump seems to have it in for the Palestinians and the Chinese, sooner or later they'll have it in for him.

Fretwired

JezWynd said:

Can't agree with that. It was all about Trump. American women are horrified that a sexist, abortion hating, pussy grabber is the leader of their country.

You're spot on .. I felt sorry for the guy trying to stop the rioters (video all over Facebook) - he eloquently pointed out that you don't need to smash things any more and that the internet has tools that allow minorities and those with a grievance to fight back.

I think Trump will be undone by social media and bloggers .. there's only so long you can get away with telling lies before the population sees through you.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

Do you think the religious/conservative right in America give a shit about that? They're actively opposed to progressive values and freedom of choice, other than in the narrow commercial sense.

I understand that - I just don't understand why, or what advantage that gives them in life (or anything, really). 

I'm not being deliberately difficult - I just don't understand what it is that gives these people the idea they should be able to dictate someone else's choices. 

Although, I suppose, taken to its logical extreme you'd get absolute anarchy... But in the case of abortion?! 

Rawr. 

littlegreenman

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm not being deliberately difficult - I just don't understand what it is that gives these people the idea they should be able to dictate someone else's choices.

They see it as their religious and moral duty to save the innocent lives of unborn children in Jesus' name. And if that includes killing a few Doctors and Nurses along the way, then so be it. Just Google Pro-Life terrorists!

ThePrettyDamned

littlegreenman said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm not being deliberately difficult - I just don't understand what it is that gives these people the idea they should be able to dictate someone else's choices.

They see it as their religious and moral duty to save the innocent lives of unborn children in Jesus' name. And if that includes killing a few Doctors and Nurses along the way, then so be it. Just Google Pro-Life terrorists!

I've seen that. I'll believe they're trying to help people when they offer free education and contraception to those in need. 

HAL9000

ThorpyFX said:

Forget the numbers, he has always denied facts in favour of his own distotorted and polarised view. That is not the scary part......

my concern here is the attitude towards the press and his threats. It's beyond scary. 

"When I use a word," Trumpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

 "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Trumpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

You're spot on .. I felt sorry for the guy trying to stop the rioters (video all over Facebook) - he eloquently pointed out that you don't need to smash things any more and that the internet has tools that allow minorities and those with a grievance to fight back.

I think Trump will be undone by social media and bloggers .. there's only so long you can get away with telling lies before the population sees through you.

I don't. After the weekend march, I spent some time talking to a friend who was very excited by the energy of it but came to the same conclusion as me: it needs to be sustained. The very worst thing that could happen is if those folk go back home and stick to bitching online. The left needs to look at how it acts as a movement. It needs positive action, not more memes about Donald's hair. 

Axe_meister

The thing is this is not just a left vs right thing.
Most people I know from lefty hippie to almost UKIP conservative are appalled at Trump

stimpsonslostson

The latest thing I've seen is that the EPA has been told to freeze it's research funding grants until further notice....
Working on climate change without non-governmental funding? Not any more you're not. 

Ironically they've all been told they're NOT allowed to discuss it with the press or post on social media. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/01/23/trump-administration-tells-epa-to-freeze-all-grants-contracts/?utm_term=.eb32f28d7bec

Myranda

Axe_meister said:

The thing is this is not just a left vs right thing.
Most people I know from lefty hippie to almost UKIP conservative are appalled at Trump

The Fiscal conservatives don't like him at all... he wants to spend a trillion dollars on infrastructure but has no plan to pay for it. On top of the 2000 mile wall he still wants built

He will, if allowed free reign, destroy the US economy for years to come after he's ousted. This could be the president that knocks the US off the top spot of richest countries