The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

fields5069

siremoon said:

fields5069 said:

...and is the worst excuse to not vote for a political party, in my opinion. If you prefer Tory ideology, that's fair enough, I wish more people would react positively to the manifesto of their party of choice.

As pointed out on the Guardian, Labour's draft manifesto is hardly radical, I find a lot in it to like. It's definitely aspirational, but I would be interested to hear actual hostile analysis of the figures and the reasons why the opposition finds the ideas laughable.

Just laughing is lazy.

.. and easy.

It reads like a project by a 1st year politics student at the University of East London.  Full of spite and union centric socialist ideology.  I'm struggling to understand how crippling British business with huge tax hikes and empowering unions to make whatever demands they like is going to improve levels of employment.  As to it being aspirational - maybe if you're a member of Unite, GMB, RMT or ASLEF but good luck to everyone else.  Oh and good luck also if you've got a pension because putting massive taxes on the City of London is going to do wonders for that.

That's interesting. Yes, I'd go along with that in a sense, but to me the apparent naivety of it is refreshing. It appeals to me because if I am going to suffer financially, then I want it to be for policies I believe in. I don't see a problem with that. Politics, and us amateur commentators, have become jaded, cynical, and lacking compassion.

thomasw88

ToneControl said:

thomasw88 said:

Fretwired said:

thomasw88 said:

Soundbites like 'Strong and stable'  - how many u turns have the tories done in recent years? 

Most voters don't take an interest in politics - slogans work (watch TV adverts for proof) and May's is working a treat for her as it's what most people want. You'll notice the Tories have positioned the election as a straightforward choice between May and Corbyn. Labour have some decent polices, but look incompetent as they have a £37 billion black hole in their costings, they send shadow cabinet members like Diane Abbott out to give car crash style interviews and Jeremy Corbyn is leader - the public don't like him.

As for U-turns ... government changing their minds when they get feedback from the public is a good thing isn't it? Thatcher ploughed on regardless even in the face of massive opposition - the Poll Tax riots forced her into an embarrassing climbdown.

the difference is that the tories seem to be in awe of the daily mail/sun/telegraph. As for May -  for some reason,  someone who doesn't answer anything with anything more than a inane soundbite, refuses to do any interviews which aren't vetted/hosted by known tory sympathisers, and won't do debates is seen as a wise tactic.. They're kind of missing the point. To me it proves that she's shit, and will not be able to conduct a negotiation well.

listen to this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08q30l1
from 19:30
all about Linton Crosby
this should explain what you see in the media
Learn about the dead cat

I've worked with people like May, they can achieve a lot, even with nervous twitches. She is way more intelligent and competent that Jezza btw.
Would you have have a polished Cameron/Clegg/Blair?
I thought there were a lot of people who prefer the unvarnished leaders like Jezza?
do you want a smooth cameron or a twitchy leader? John Major was very popular

I also reject this idea that Jezza is out there engaging with the public
Everything I've seen he is surrounded by 200 acolytes, and I can't see how he could be harangued by anyone
I assume Farron can't manage more than 20 acolytes so has to talk to the odd disgruntled citizen

I'm aware of the crosby effect.  It's effective, but it  will have a shelf life..

John Major was popular for a few years, but he certainly wasn't at the end of his time..

thomasw88

Fretwired said:

thomasw88 said:

the difference is that the tories seem to be in awe of the daily mail/sun/telegraph. As for May -  for some reason,  someone who doesn't answer anything with anything more than a inane soundbite, refuses to do any interviews which aren't vetted/hosted by known tory sympathisers, and won't do debates is seen as a wise tactic.. They're kind of missing the point. To me it proves that she's shit, and will not be able to conduct a negotiation well.

I'd say its inspired. Don't actually promise anything because with Brexit looming there's going to be a lot of crap flying around. Clegg and Cameron promised much in 2010 and it got both into the shit with voters.

you and I differ then..     basically you're advocating a political system in which the parties can't be held to account as they're asking to be elected without promising to deliver anything...

Fretwired

thomasw88 said:

Fretwired said:

thomasw88 said:

the difference is that the tories seem to be in awe of the daily mail/sun/telegraph. As for May -  for some reason,  someone who doesn't answer anything with anything more than a inane soundbite, refuses to do any interviews which aren't vetted/hosted by known tory sympathisers, and won't do debates is seen as a wise tactic.. They're kind of missing the point. To me it proves that she's shit, and will not be able to conduct a negotiation well.

I'd say its inspired. Don't actually promise anything because with Brexit looming there's going to be a lot of crap flying around. Clegg and Cameron promised much in 2010 and it got both into the shit with voters.

you and I differ then..     basically you're advocating a political system in which the parties can't be held to account as they're asking to be elected without promising to deliver anything...

Oh come on. Most people have made their minds up long before the manifestos are published. This election is about Brexit and as May says Brexit is Brexit. The political landscape will look differently after Brexit when things will switch back to the economy, NHS etc.

Evilmags

Fretwired said:

thomasw88 said:

Fretwired said:

thomasw88 said:

the difference is that the tories seem to be in awe of the daily mail/sun/telegraph. As for May -  for some reason,  someone who doesn't answer anything with anything more than a inane soundbite, refuses to do any interviews which aren't vetted/hosted by known tory sympathisers, and won't do debates is seen as a wise tactic.. They're kind of missing the point. To me it proves that she's shit, and will not be able to conduct a negotiation well.

I'd say its inspired. Don't actually promise anything because with Brexit looming there's going to be a lot of crap flying around. Clegg and Cameron promised much in 2010 and it got both into the shit with voters.

you and I differ then..     basically you're advocating a political system in which the parties can't be held to account as they're asking to be elected without promising to deliver anything...

Oh come on. Most people have made their minds up long before the manifestos are published. This election is about Brexit and as May says Brexit is Brexit. The political landscape will look differently after Brexit when things will switch back to the economy, NHS etc.

Anyone betting on seat outcomes. Over 80 win by Tories looks about right, with a cheeky side bet if 10 in Scotland. 

Garthy

thomasw88 said:

Fretwired said:

thomasw88 said:

the difference is that the tories seem to be in awe of the daily mail/sun/telegraph. As for May -  for some reason,  someone who doesn't answer anything with anything more than a inane soundbite, refuses to do any interviews which aren't vetted/hosted by known tory sympathisers, and won't do debates is seen as a wise tactic.. They're kind of missing the point. To me it proves that she's shit, and will not be able to conduct a negotiation well.

I'd say its inspired. Don't actually promise anything because with Brexit looming there's going to be a lot of crap flying around. Clegg and Cameron promised much in 2010 and it got both into the shit with voters.

you and I differ then..     basically you're advocating a political system in which the parties can't be held to account as they're asking to be elected without promising to deliver anything...

We are not in normal times. Ideally a cross party war coalition should at least be considered for the next parliament however Corbyn just wants to be a pain in the arse, his shadow cabinet are frighteningly incompetent, Farron is like a child pretending not to hear an answer he didn't like and as for the SNP....

There is a reason we are heading for Tory landslide akin to a one party state and that's because everyone else is a fucking shambles.

AliGorie

Fretwired said:

Oh come on. Most people have made their minds up long before the manifestos are published. This election is about Brexit and as May says Brexit is Brexit. The political landscape will look differently after Brexit when things will switch back to the economy, NHS etc.

I'm afraid it goes way beyond the 'simple' "Controlling our Borders FW, it's about controlling our fiscal and civil laws etc.
The people of England and Wales are asleep at the wheel on a mountain road.
Sure Corbyn + Sturgeon are the bad guys - ha - so THEY tell us - now why would THEY do that ?.

Fretwired

AliGorie said:

Fretwired said:

Oh come on. Most people have made their minds up long before the manifestos are published. This election is about Brexit and as May says Brexit is Brexit. The political landscape will look differently after Brexit when things will switch back to the economy, NHS etc.

I'm afraid it goes way beyond the 'simple' "Controlling our Borders FW, it's about controlling our fiscal and civil laws etc.
The people of England and Wales are asleep at the wheel on a mountain road.
Sure Corbyn + Sturgeon are the bad guys - ha - so THEY tell us - now why would THEY do that ?.

With Corbyn I think there's an element of sitting on the fence over Brexit and he and has team have hardly been professional. Car crash interviews and manifesto pledges that don't add up. UKIP voters have returned to the Tories and many Labour voters in the north who want Brexit will vote Tory.

Not sure about Sturgeon - she comes across well on TV and is obviously competent, but she bangs on about wanting another referendum. Is that really what the people of Scotland want right now?

Evilmags

Sturgeon is smart, but she has missed her sweet spot. During the referendum the SNP co-opted the hard left (At a distance) and they went on the usual "Red Tory Scum" binge of cyber abuse. They havent stopped since and a lot of the people targeted by it are getting seriously fed up with it. Êducation and deficit are catching up as well and her halo is starting to slip. Salmond managed to get business support whih is fast switching to the Tories and Davidson is seriously smart and streetwise. 

8 scottish seats is realistic for the Tories in Scotland As much as a lot of unionists would rather vote LibDem or LAbour, both parties performances are so dire that is the secret of the voting booth, a breakthrough is unlikely. 

Jalapeno

Fretwired said:

<snip>
Not sure about Sturgeon - she comes across well on TV and is obviously competent, but she bangs on about wanting another referendum. Is that really what the people of Scotland want right now?

Interesting - this might be the "London view" (it is certainly one I've formed from MSM) - was taken to task but Scots persons that this not how Scottish media portray her and ScotsNats party. Certainly I agree from what I've seen she does bang-on somewhat QED today's demand for a seat at the Brexit negotiations - pointless, it is not a competence (in the sense of scope, not ability) of the Scottish Government.

DarnWeight

Coalition of Chaos, anyone?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/15/conservative-candidates-making-electoral-pacts-with-ukip

siremoon

DarnWeight said:

Coalition of Chaos, anyone?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/15/conservative-candidates-making-electoral-pacts-with-ukip

In other words "party A agrees to support party B to get mandate to do what it said was going to do anyway". 

DarnWeight

siremoon said:

DarnWeight said:

Coalition of Chaos, anyone?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/15/conservative-candidates-making-electoral-pacts-with-ukip

In other words "party A agrees to support party B to get mandate to do what it said was going to do anyway". 

My point is more about the hypocrisy inherent in accusing your opposition of exactly the same shenanigans you're engaged in yourself.

capo4th

thomasw88 said:

capo4th said:

thomasw88 said:

capo4th said:

Good old Corbyn and Labour another devisive soundbite policy. 

Does Jeremy not realise how much the city contributes to U.K. GDP and HMRC receipts the man is a first class idiot oh no he would rather nationalise the railways for his union mates.

Dude read the fecking manifesto rather than continually spouting absolute bollocks

Hey dude listen to me, the Labour manifesto is the biggest load of nonsense ever created for an election by a political party.

Fantasy rainbow tinted pipe dreams and policies created for the unions.

Please enlighten me as to which part of my quote above you take offence to as it all looks rather factual to me.

The Labour Party is a shambles and its leader is a bearded fool with a prune for a brain.

Soundbites telling voters and hardworking people what they want to hear to try and win a vote without a hope in hell of achieving anything whatsoever written in their manifesto. 

Labour will suffer another humiliating defeat in the election and hopefully we will see Corbyn and Diane Abbott disappear into a dark hole where they can play rudies and do long multipcation together.

Make some good decisions to improve your life but don't rely on the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn.

Soundbites like 'Strong and stable'  - how many u turns have the tories done in recent years?  or soundbites like
'brexit means brexit' -  which means what exactly?   The tories are by far  the worst witth regards to meangingless soundbites and just because they don't get scrutinised by the MSM doesn't mean that you should just swallow the utter crap they are spouting.

As for fantasty rainbow tinted pipe dreams -  How many of the Tories financial self imposed targets have they actually hit since 2010?  A big clue its rhymes with fugger hall..

Do you actually believe May's latest nonsensical promise to restrict net immigration to the 10's of thousands? 

My point to you is that you continually  slate labour without actually making references to what they're actually saying. 

The Labour manifesto has no economic credibility whatsoever. Financial meltdown.

The blue party have been cleaning up the complete finiancial mess overseen by the Labour Party for the last seven years. Huge spending by Labour without any thought of paying for it ploughing on regardless and it all went bang!

Lobour are saying quite clearly in their manifesto we will look after all our friends in the unions and nationalise the big work forces around the UK to protect their big wages and gold plated pensions.

Great idea Jeremy further protect the most protected workers in the country because they pay your wages and fund 99% of your party.

Trust me they will do nothing for the NHS except waste more money on more overpaid managers. 

Labour will also also set out to raise taxes on business and add tariffs to the city which creates the majority of wealth for the country.

Clueless Corbyn the man has no idea except to blame big business. 

Dave and Doris with two kids on £50k a year will get no help from Labour whatsoever.

Reduce spending on defence when world war 3 could erupt anytime good idea Jeremy.

Labour will help people claim more benefits and give out more free housing putting further burden on the taxpayer.

The rich people in London with their huge mortgages can have a tax increase.

Scrap tuition fees and £10 an hour minimum wage = Unachievable soundbites to win votes

£10 minimum wage will increase unemployment and put more people back on benefits

Jeremy will give everyone four more bank holidays costing business millions but good news for the layabouts.

No plans for business or industry and generating skills for young people unless it's controlled by the unite union. 

Labour also seem to have an unlimited pot of cash under Diane Abbotts huge bed to fund all of this crazy manifesto.

Please enlighten me if they are about to offer anything different as I may have missed it. I will also be happy to buy Diane Abbott a new Casio calculator so she can work it all out accurately to see how many £billion underfunded the plans are.

Labour are a big shower of shit and god help us if they get elected.

I might add Brexit does mean Brexit it means we are Brexiting the EU if you had not figured that out. Jeremy Corbyn is the last man on Earth you would want negotiating the Brexit deals as he is a complete fuckwit. Have you seen the lunatics that surround him at his rallies absolute comedy maybe you were there? 

Lunch over !

Evilmags

The UK public will not vote for that...

Evilmags

And why the LIb Dems are not getting traction


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/15/two-thirds-voters-now-support-brexit/

siremoon

DarnWeight said:

siremoon said:

DarnWeight said:

Coalition of Chaos, anyone?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/15/conservative-candidates-making-electoral-pacts-with-ukip

In other words "party A agrees to support party B to get mandate to do what it said was going to do anyway". 

My point is more about the hypocrisy inherent in accusing your opposition of exactly the same shenanigans you're engaged in yourself.

But it's not exactly the same.  Lib Dems and Greens are standing down for each other in selected seats (Greens in SW London, Lib Dems in Skipton and Rippon for example) whereas I don't see any Tories standing down for UKIP. 

thomasw88

capo4th said:

thomasw88 said:

capo4th said:

thomasw88 said:

capo4th said:

Good old Corbyn and Labour another devisive soundbite policy. 

Does Jeremy not realise how much the city contributes to U.K. GDP and HMRC receipts the man is a first class idiot oh no he would rather nationalise the railways for his union mates.

Dude read the fecking manifesto rather than continually spouting absolute bollocks

Hey dude listen to me, the Labour manifesto is the biggest load of nonsense ever created for an election by a political party.

Fantasy rainbow tinted pipe dreams and policies created for the unions.

Please enlighten me as to which part of my quote above you take offence to as it all looks rather factual to me.

The Labour Party is a shambles and its leader is a bearded fool with a prune for a brain.

Soundbites telling voters and hardworking people what they want to hear to try and win a vote without a hope in hell of achieving anything whatsoever written in their manifesto. 

Labour will suffer another humiliating defeat in the election and hopefully we will see Corbyn and Diane Abbott disappear into a dark hole where they can play rudies and do long multipcation together.

Make some good decisions to improve your life but don't rely on the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn.

Soundbites like 'Strong and stable'  - how many u turns have the tories done in recent years?  or soundbites like
'brexit means brexit' -  which means what exactly?   The tories are by far  the worst witth regards to meangingless soundbites and just because they don't get scrutinised by the MSM doesn't mean that you should just swallow the utter crap they are spouting.

As for fantasty rainbow tinted pipe dreams -  How many of the Tories financial self imposed targets have they actually hit since 2010?  A big clue its rhymes with fugger hall..

Do you actually believe May's latest nonsensical promise to restrict net immigration to the 10's of thousands? 

My point to you is that you continually  slate labour without actually making references to what they're actually saying. 

The Labour manifesto has no economic credibility whatsoever. Financial meltdown.

The blue party have been cleaning up the complete finiancial mess overseen by the Labour Party for the last seven years. Huge spending by Labour without any thought of paying for it ploughing on regardless and it all went bang!

Lobour are saying quite clearly in their manifesto we will look after all our friends in the unions and nationalise the big work forces around the UK to protect their big wages and gold plated pensions.

Great idea Jeremy further protect the most protected workers in the country because they pay your wages and fund 99% of your party.

Trust me they will do nothing for the NHS except waste more money on more overpaid managers. 

Labour will also also set out to raise taxes on business and add tariffs to the city which creates the majority of wealth for the country.

Clueless Corbyn the man has no idea except to blame big business. 

Dave and Doris with two kids on £50k a year will get no help from Labour whatsoever.

Reduce spending on defence when world war 3 could erupt anytime good idea Jeremy.

Labour will help people claim more benefits and give out more free housing putting further burden on the taxpayer.

The rich people in London with their huge mortgages can have a tax increase.

Scrap tuition fees and £10 an hour minimum wage = Unachievable soundbites to win votes

£10 minimum wage will increase unemployment and put more people back on benefits

Jeremy will give everyone four more bank holidays costing business millions but good news for the layabouts.

No plans for business or industry and generating skills for young people unless it's controlled by the unite union. 

Labour also seem to have an unlimited pot of cash under Diane Abbotts huge bed to fund all of this crazy manifesto.

Please enlighten me if they are about to offer anything different as I may have missed it. I will also be happy to buy Diane Abbott a new Casio calculator so she can work it all out accurately to see how many £billion underfunded the plans are.

Labour are a big shower of shit and god help us if they get elected.

I might add Brexit does mean Brexit it means we are Brexiting the EU if you had not figured that out. Jeremy Corbyn is the last man on Earth you would want negotiating the Brexit deals as he is a complete fuckwit. Have you seen the lunatics that surround him at his rallies absolute comedy maybe you were there? 

Lunch over !

You should change your username to "Paul Dacre is awesome" I asked for some answers to my questions and you replied with a load of garbage straight from Tory HQ.

ChuckManual

siremoon said:

Lib Dems and Greens are standing down for each other in selected seats (Greens in SW London, Lib Dems in Skipton and Rippon for example) whereas I don't see any Tories standing down for UKIP.  

But the same conditions don't exist. There isn't a single seat in Great Britain where it would make any sense whatsoever for the Tories to stand down in favour of UKIP.

Besides that, given the recent local elections, it's obvious that all those UKIPpers have just returned to the Tory fold anyway.

siremoon

ChuckManual said:

siremoon said:

Lib Dems and Greens are standing down for each other in selected seats (Greens in SW London, Lib Dems in Skipton and Rippon for example) whereas I don't see any Tories standing down for UKIP.  

But the same conditions don't exist. There isn't a single seat in Great Britain where it would make any sense whatsoever for the Tories to stand down in favour of UKIP.

Besides that, given the recent local elections, it's obvious that all those UKIPpers have just returned to the Tory fold anyway.

Yes so as I said it's not the same.