Two Lancasters Flying Together!

ICBM

martinw said:

holnrew said:

Why do people worship tools of mass killing?

Because they were tools of mass killing that we only came up with to fight-and beat- the Nazis. Remember them? They were pretty bad people. The cleverest and bravest men we had developed, built, flew and died in them in an act of great sacrifice.

My mum helped build them at A. V. Roe's. My uncle was killed flying as crew in a Wellington over Norway in 1940. My dad  was an RAF electrician and mopped blood out of returning USAAF B17s. To some of us it's not just an ethical debate.

not_the_dj said:

Seeing a Lanc in the air is such a moving experience, the BBMF displays with the Spitfire and Hurricane are brilliant. Took my two young kids to Cosford Airshow last year to see them for the first time, I was amazed at my emotional response to a machine.

We should be proud of the men who flew in them, and the men and women who designed, built, maintained and supported them. These displays are a tribute to all those people. 

My grandad was RAF ground crew. 

So was mine. He was a Polish air force mechanic who managed to escape from his country when it was invaded, and came here to help us fight back.

A lot of people died in WWII, innocent German civilians included, but if we had never fought it the outcome would have been far worse.

holnrew

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Kebabkid

martinw said:

holnrew said:

Why do people worship tools of mass killing?

Because they were tools of mass killing that we only came up with to fight-and beat- the Nazis. Remember them? They were pretty bad people. The cleverest and bravest men we had developed, built, flew and died in them in an act of great sacrifice.

My mum helped build them at A. V. Roe's. My uncle was killed flying as crew in a Wellington over Norway in 1940. My dad  was an RAF electrician and mopped blood out of returning USAAF B17s. To some of us it's not just an ethical debate.

well @martinw given your family's association with the above, if you haven't already been to Brooklands, and if not too sad an experience, a trip there could be worthwhile.

martinw

holnrew said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Yes, I was aware of that, and much else besides. It was a war, total war. Decisions were made and bad stuff happened. Perhaps you would have been perfect had you been there. Think yourself lucky you haven't had to get involved in anything so shitty, where there are no 'goods', only two 'bloody awfuls' to choose between. Hindsight eh?

Kebabkid said:

martinw said:

well @martinw given your family's association with the above, if you haven't already been to Brooklands, and if not too sad an experience, a trip there could be worthwhile.

Yes. I went to Elvington last year, and that was great. 

holnrew

martinw said:

holnrew said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Yes, I was aware of that, and much else besides. It was a war, total war. Decisions were made and bad stuff happened. Perhaps you would have been perfect had you been there. Think yourself lucky you haven't had to get involved in anything so shitty, where there are no 'goods', only two 'bloody awfuls' to choose between. Hindsight eh?

I'd have probably signed up in WWII, and done some shitty things. I just don't get why people like war planes. I feel it's glorifying something distasteful. Sorry for the semi-trolling. Back to your fun.

ESBlonde

holnrew said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Don't forget the German bombing of civilians during the Spanish civil war, and the Germans bombing Warsaw in 1939 and the German bombing of Rotterdam after it surrendered in 1940 and the German bombing of London, Norwich, Southampton, Hull, Coventry etc. in 1940.

"They have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind" Arthur Harris.

War is undoubtedly a terrible thing, sometimes turning the other cheek doesn't help.

BTW good luck with your test today.

CabbageCat

ESBlonde said:

holnrew said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Don't forget the German bombing of civilians during the Spanish civil war, and the Germans bombing Warsaw in 1939 and the German bombing of Rotterdam after it surrendered in 1940 and the German bombing of London, Norwich, Southampton, Hull, Coventry etc. in 1940.

I daresay Holnrew would find worship of German bombers to be distasteful as well.

ESBlonde

CabbageCat said:

ESBlonde said:

holnrew said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Don't forget the German bombing of civilians during the Spanish civil war, and the Germans bombing Warsaw in 1939 and the German bombing of Rotterdam after it surrendered in 1940 and the German bombing of London, Norwich, Southampton, Hull, Coventry etc. in 1940.

I daresay Holnrew would find worship of German bombers to be distasteful as well.

I should hope so. The technology always advances during times of war/tension. War is not the thing being celebrated here so much as the courage and efforts of those people that found themselves there at the moment and faced the challenges.

freakboy1610

My dad was a mid-upper gunner in a Lancaster bomber in 622 Squadron based at Mildenhall 1943-1945. I've seen the Lanc at Duxford and it's very difficult to imagine him and his mates flying in such a thing. He grew up in a time when the milk was delivered by horse and cart and if a car went by then everyone stopped and stared but at the age of 19 he was getting into an aeroplane and flying over Europe, mostly at night. Prior to enlisting he was in the home guard and he said it was all very amateur and rather like Dad's army. They used to take it in turns to take the tripod mounted machine gun home! Strange days indeed.

rolls1392

Great news about the two Lancs!!

Always great to see.

My Dad was a tail gunner in B25 Martins during the war. Deserted the Irish Army aged 15, lied about his age and got into the RAF. Not a scratch on him the whole time!!

Mother was German and was in Hamburg when it was bombed for 72hrs straight.

An uncle of mine was a test pilot for the Luftwaffe I  the latter part of the war, helping develop the ME262 and Komet.

Watching the '66 World Cup in Germany was a bummer, I was the only one cheering.

not_the_dj

Not sure if this'll work...video clip to a Canadian news story about the trip

http://www.chch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-0224-LancML.jpg#hpdumhsk

Wolfetone

I have sat in the pilots seat of the Canadian Lanc at Hamilton. It's just amazing how small they are and to climb over the main spar is a huge effort. The pilots seat is about 2/3rds the width of your car seat and the co pilots seat flips down from the side to allow the bomb aimer/nav down through. Also took the controls of their T6 Texan as we went low level down a ravine. 

@rolls1392 - The B25 was a Liberator and the B26 was a marauder made by Martin Aircraft Corp.

rolls1392

Wolfetone said:

@rolls1392 - The B25 was a Liberator and the B26 was a marauder made by Martin Aircraft Corp.

 

Thanks Wolftone. Got my numbers mixed up. Unfortunately my source of information is no longer available. Cheers

Handsome_Chris

rolls1392 said:

An uncle of mine was a test pilot for the Luftwaffe I  the latter part of the war, helping develop the ME262 and Komet.

I  think Me262s are cool. A lady friend of mine took me to the Smithsonian at Dulles Airport.  It was amazing I saw an Me262 and an actual Space Shuttle.  There was other stuff too, but those I remember.

ESBlonde

Wolfetone said:

I have sat in the pilots seat of the Canadian Lanc at Hamilton. It's just amazing how small they are and to climb over the main spar is a huge effort. The pilots seat is about 2/3rds the width of your car seat and the co pilots seat flips down from the side to allow the bomb aimer/nav down through. Also took the controls of their T6 Texan as we went low level down a ravine. 

@rolls1392 - The B25 was a Liberator and the B26 was a marauder made by Martin Aircraft Corp.

The B24 was the Liberator, The B25 the Mitchell. B26 Marauder aka the widowmaker because a lack of training caused some accidents in early use. High take off and landing speeds that pilots were not used to and nasty handling if an engine lost power near the ground. They became very successful aircraft but the name stuck.

not_the_dj

First joint flight confirmed: 24th August flypast over the Bourn Memorial.

http://www.rafbournmemorial.co.uk/

ESBlonde

Duly noted @not_the_dj
Bourn is quite a special place to walk around with plenty of the original buildings and tarmac still present (although another planning application is under consideration right now).

My Diary is marked.

luscombe

it will be fantastic to see two Lancasters in the air together. I'm hoping i can fly my vintage aeroplane to an air display they are attending. Who knows i might be able to get some air to air photographs?

ICBM

luscombe said:

it will be fantastic to see two Lancasters in the air together. I'm hoping i can fly my vintage aeroplane to an air display they are attending. Who knows i might be able to get some air to air photographs?

Just as long as your vintage aeroplane isn't a Junkers 88 night fighter...

luscombe

If only it was!