The wide neck guitar criminal!

kelvinburn

I'd bet a decent amount of money that he found the forum by Googling himself

octatonic

He was invited to comment.

ICBM

GSPBASSES said:

    Now most of use have made comments on the appalling work that @mdphillips1956 has done on guitar nuts and bridges and the way he totally F**KS up guitars but I have not read any think about the fact the 7st come 6st guitars that the B G D A strings miss the pole pieces on the pickups almost completely. Now I point this out so we can have lots more comment's on this to make sure this post THE WIDE NECK GUITAR CRIMINAL dose not stop yet and become the War and Peace of all forums.

At the risk of doing exactly that, I will answer the serious point…

It doesn't matter. As long as the strings pass through the magnetic field of the pickups, whether they're over the poles or not makes little or no difference. If it did, you'd expect a bent note to 'drop out' when the string is halfway between the polepieces on a Strat, and it doesn't. The field is just not finely focused enough for it to affect the signal strength much.

Both Fender and Rickenbacker have used standard 6-pole guitar pickups on their 4-string basses, without anyone noticing because the poles are covered.

I don't think this thread is altogether a bad thing. If it educates more people (even if not Mr. Phillips) about what actually affects the operation of a guitar and what doesn't - even when it might not look quite right - it may be useful.

He's actually right in that the bodges he does *are* more or less functional - but that's missing the point, it's that they are not a professional way of doing things and should not be sold with misleading descriptions to people who don't know better, and for more than they're actually worth.

randomhandclaps

For those who are critical about the negativity attributed to Mark's work and business model would you care to be a bit more constructive and add a positive angle rather than just moralising?

Whilst we are at it we could lift the perception of this forum by starting a thread extolling the virtues of the 'daring to be different' approach Music Ground took.

Danny1969

I really don't understand why so many people on here care. Look at the crap job Van Halen made of bodging a humbucker into a Strat, the broken scratchplate etc ..... does it matter if does the job for him.  If this guy can make more money on a guitar by modding it then fair enough I reckon. 

There's hundreds of sellers on Ebay selling fake laptop chargers that are likely to catch fire, there's people selling fake mics and fake pedals. In the grand scheme of things this guys doing no harm really

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

GSPBASSES said:

    Now most of use have made comments on the appalling work that @mdphillips1956 has done on guitar nuts and bridges and the way he totally F**KS up guitars but I have not read any think about the fact the 7st come 6st guitars that the B G D A strings miss the pole pieces on the pickups almost completely. Now I point this out so we can have lots more comment's on this to make sure this post THE WIDE NECK GUITAR CRIMINAL dose not stop yet and become the War and Peace of all forums.

At the risk of doing exactly that, I will answer the serious point…

It doesn't matter. As long as the strings pass through the magnetic field of the pickups, whether they're over the poles or not makes little or no difference. If it did, you'd expect a bent note to 'drop out' when the string is halfway between the polepieces on a Strat, and it doesn't. The field is just not finely focused enough for it to affect the signal strength much.

Both Fender and Rickenbacker have used standard 6-pole guitar pickups on their 4-string basses, without anyone noticing because the poles are covered.

I don't think this thread is altogether a bad thing. If it educates more people (even if not Mr. Phillips) about what actually affects the operation of a guitar and what doesn't - even when it might not look quite right - it may be useful.

He's actually right in that the bodges he does *are* more or less functional - but that's missing the point, it's that they are not a professional way of doing things and should not be sold with misleading descriptions to people who don't know better, and for more than they're actually worth.

All absolutely correct technically .... and my view exactly regards functionality v sales worthy product.
I would love to see this thread judder to a quiet death now. There is nothing more to be said of use on any side now. opinion is polarised, as it always was going to be, and the whole thing is simply tail chasing.
As soon as I get the LP copy from @funstuie we shall have our own fixerupper to feature in a thread of its own ... oh and thanks for the pots @mike_i they will definitely get used!

randomhandclaps

Danny1969 said:

I really don't understand why so many people on here care. Look at the crap job Van Halen made of bodging a humbucker into a Strat, the broken scratchplate etc ..... does it matter if does the job for him.  If this guy can make more money on a guitar by modding it then fair enough I reckon. 

There's hundreds of sellers on Ebay selling fake laptop chargers that are likely to catch fire, there's people selling fake mics and fake pedals. In the grand scheme of things this guys doing no harm really

So the fact people abuse EBay to con people makes it ok?

It is true when I first saw his creation my immediate thought was when Van Halen was selling Frankenstrats to kids.

First, this -

"P-bass good copy by John Hornsby Skewes Encore with overhaul and full pro set up",

taken from this listing - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P-bass-good-copy-by-John-Hornsby-Skewes-Encore-with-overhaul-and-full-pro-set-up-/191117978598?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item2c7f84ebe6

When compared to this statement of self awareness -

Adam_MD said:

Hi Rycky,
I am posting one off tomorrow that fetched just £192 in auction... quite disappointed with that as it was my best one so far and it looked the mutt's nuts and I hoped for around £300; but it was in profit so I learn then move on.

I am not a guitar builder but more of a master bodger really... grand master even!
I make guitars for guys with big hands and fingers; or with smaller hands but wanting extra space for specific finger techniques etc.

Cheers,
Mark............
Phillips Cleartone Guitars

Clearly shows that not only is he misrepresenting himself, he is fully aware of it.

Secondly, if someone bought a guitar from any distance seller and it was a dog we would all say "Well you should have tried it?".  Yet every time someone attempts to enquire about collection on EBay Mark trots out feeble excuses.  Why would that be?  Self awareness again maybe?  If he has the room to work the he has the room to allow potential purchasers to try before they buy.  Here is another advantage of targeting beginners because quite often the first guitar for the child comes from a catalogue or distance seller with the purchaser making the assumption that the law forces sellers to be honest, provide an item fit for purpose and are protected by some form of guarantee.

This is where the argument revolves back around to "Well the buyer should know what they are looking for.".  As @Octatonic clearly pointed out earlier in this thread that with beginners that is often far from the case.  I will take it one step and point out that most beginners do not buy their own guitar.  It is bought by parents,family or guardians.  These people would have no clue as to what they were looking for and are very much in the hands of sellers honesty and Mark's listing are clearly deceptive.  They make statements which are false, descriptions which are wrong and guarantees and promises that cannot be backed up.

It's not strictly illegal for a couple of blokes to knock on your Nan's door, scoop some crud out of her guttering and charge her £400 for the benefit, but would that make it right?

IMO actively preying on someone's naivety to extract money from them is about as low as society can go.  I do not for one second buy the whole "Well they should have done their homework" bollocks. 

IMO he takes guitars and makes complete abortions of them.  If that makes him happy to tinker in his shed or on his kitchen table then good luck to him.  However he clearly presents himself as a skilled workman running a legitimate business "Phillips Cleartone Conversion".  Can anyone find any register of this at companies house? 

Talk of legal action is by Phillips Cleartone Conversions is so laughable it's untrue.   I run my own busy and pay my taxes.  Can anyone find any register on PCC on HMRC?  He seems to shift a fair few guitar after all.

 

Iamnobody

Danny1969;205570" said:

There's hundreds of sellers on Ebay selling fake laptop chargers that are likely to catch fire, there's people selling fake mics and fake pedals. In the grand scheme of things this guys doing no harm really

There are killers and rapists out there so as a society shall we turn a blind eye to lesser petty crimes?

I guess if we were a computer forum we might be highlighting dodgy laptop charger sellers! We point out fake guitars on here as well.

Unfortunately MDP does himself no favours with the shite he peddles.

His approach rightly or wrongly gets on peoples tits. And naturally makes him a target.

For weeks (as a forum) we've been entertained and making negative comments about his shoddy work.

Does the fact he's now a member mean our opinions should change or we should give him a light touch?

GSPBASSES

If it dose not matter if the stings go over the top of the poles then why do we have standard spaced poles and "F" spaced poles on HB pickups? Or why are the poles on a Tele pickup wider apart then the space between the saddles on a Telecaster bridge other then because of the angle of the pickup would take the poles away form the strings. Although this dose not happen on a Strat as the angle is far less then a Tele pickup so a Strat bridge pickup can be the same a neck pickup.

OilCityPickups

GSPBASSES said:

If it dose not matter if the stings go over the top of the poles then why do we have standard spaced poles and "F" spaced poles on HB pickups? Or why are the poles on a Tele pickup wider apart then the space between the saddles on a Telecaster bridge other then because of the angle of the pickup would take the poles away form the strings. Although this dose not happen on a Strat as the angle is far less then a Tele pickup so a Strat bridge pickup can be the same a neck pickup.

It certainly matters to a degree ... but not to the degree everybody seems to think it does. The major reason we have F and G spaced poles is purely cosmetics. The 72 Wide range neck pickup poles (not the reissue) miss the strings completely, but the field itself is wide enough for it to make no difference. I regularly use 50mm spaced pickups on 52mm test guitars and vise versa. Using a gauss meter to test the strength of field in various positions is very enlightening!
My qualification for this statement being the production of many hundreds of F and G space pickups a year and constant testing and development.

As to why the poles are spaced wide on a Tele if it doesn't matter ... well Leo Fender was an old School engineer (like my father) and something visible off kilter ... whether functional or not would have grated with him. By the time they got to the 72 Wide Range the CBS bodgers had taken over.

mike_l

Danny1969 said:

I really don't understand why so many people on here care. Look at the crap job Van Halen made of bodging a humbucker into a Strat, the broken scratchplate etc ..... does it matter if does the job for him.

1, Van Halen bodged those guitars for his own use, not to sell on.

2. Imagine you're a beginner to guitar, you get one of those guitars that look like they've been attacked with an axe, would you want to pick it up and play it?

Personally I care, because I love guitars, and don't like to see them wasted, and beginners put off by bad "modifications".

 

Danny1969

mike_l said:

Danny1969 said:

I really don't understand why so many people on here care. Look at the crap job Van Halen made of bodging a humbucker into a Strat, the broken scratchplate etc ..... does it matter if does the job for him.

1, Van Halen bodged those guitars for his own use, not to sell on.

2. Imagine you're a beginner to guitar, you get one of those guitars that look like they've been attacked with an axe, would you want to pick it up and play it?

Personally I care, because I love guitars, and don't like to see them wasted, and beginners put off by bad "modifications".

 

Personally I'm not so fussed about how guitars look. They are a tool to earn money to me, much like a drill or a hammer

In regard to my argument about people peddling fake items this is a more serious crime .... his guitar with a badly cut nut won't burn down your house and he's not pretending the guitars are anything other than what they are modd'ed by him. Yeah I think he could do a better job and probably will after all this flack

GSPBASSES

Don’t get me wrong I know its a cosmetic thing only but that the point. Mr Phillips makes a total cock up of the nut and bridge cosmetically as well as the stings not going over the poles thats the point I was making.

Back in a day when I did repairs and set ups a nice little income was changing the pickups in 5 string Basses made by Bass Collection as they use 4 string pickups in them. That really did make a big different’s in the sound, could be the better pickups I put in or the fact the string went over the poles or a bit of both.

mike_l

Danny1969 said:

mike_l said:

Danny1969 said:

I really don't understand why so many people on here care. Look at the crap job Van Halen made of bodging a humbucker into a Strat, the broken scratchplate etc ..... does it matter if does the job for him.

1, Van Halen bodged those guitars for his own use, not to sell on.

2. Imagine you're a beginner to guitar, you get one of those guitars that look like they've been attacked with an axe, would you want to pick it up and play it?

Personally I care, because I love guitars, and don't like to see them wasted, and beginners put off by bad "modifications".

 

Personally I'm not so fussed about how guitars look. They are a tool to earn money to me, much like a drill or a hammer

In regard to my argument about people peddling fake items this is a more serious crime .... his guitar with a badly cut nut won't burn down your house and he's not pretending the guitars are anything other than what they are modd'ed by him. Yeah I think he could do a better job and probably will after all this flack

 

But would you buy a guitar that looked like it had been hit randomly with an axe, had saddles missing, a shabbily cut nut, and was missing, and had mismatched machine heads? Would you buy, and use one of the guitars Mr Phillips has "made"?

 

And, I have fairly large hands, as do plenty of other guitarists, and none have needed a 7 string converted into a 6 string........

 

I'm not commenting on fakes as that is a completely different discussion.

octatonic

We aren't the first to question his methods:

http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t4682-poor-tortured-super-headless-bass

http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t4614-finally-got-his-hands-on-a-westone

OilCityPickups

GSPBASSES said:

Don’t get me wrong I know its a cosmetic thing only but that the point. Mr Phillips makes a total cock up of the nut and bridge cosmetically as well as the stings not going over the poles thats the point I was making.

Back in a day when I did repairs and set ups a nice little income was changing the pickups in 5 string Basses made by Bass Collection as they use 4 string pickups in them. That really did make a big different’s in the sound, could be the better pickups I put in or the fact the string went over the poles or a bit of both.

There's a degree to which the extra pole was upping the 'magnet mass' ... which would have made quite a difference to the bottom end. As an aside, I used to sell Bass Collection bases when I had  the music shop in the early nineties ... I've a very soft spot for them.
Personally I like bar magnets used as a single full length bass pole. You are getting the advantage of all the magnet mass between the strings for free. Either that or 'blades' where you use a 'one width fits all' strategy

FelineGuitars

TheGuitarWeasel said:

GSPBASSES said:

Don’t get me wrong I know its a cosmetic thing only but that the point. Mr Phillips makes a total cock up of the nut and bridge cosmetically as well as the stings not going over the poles thats the point I was making.

Back in a day when I did repairs and set ups a nice little income was changing the pickups in 5 string Basses made by Bass Collection as they use 4 string pickups in them. That really did make a big different’s in the sound, could be the better pickups I put in or the fact the string went over the poles or a bit of both.

There's a degree to which the extra pole was upping the 'magnet mass' ... which would have made quite a difference to the bottom end. As an aside, I used to sell Bass Collection bases when I had  the music shop in the early nineties ... I've a very soft spot for them.
Personally I like bar magnets used as a single full length bass pole. You are getting the advantage of all the magnet mass between the strings for free. Either that or 'blades' where you use a 'one width fits all' strategy

Back in the early 90s I was asked by House Music/The Bass Centre (who were the distributor for Bass Collection) if I would do some work for them setting up and checking the Bass Collection basses before they went out to shops. 

I would dearly have liked to have done it, but I had a full time job already (prior to Feline) and it was likely to be a part time/short term contract, so I had to decline. 

However I put forward my best mate Doug for the job which he did and thoroughly enjoyed. 

Later he was to set up his own operation as Blackmachine Guitars. 

Ironically we are both working together now as I build he B6 model for him.

What comes around goes around.

FelineGuitars

Back on subject we have done a few wide neck guitars for customers with big hands over the years.

Here is one such beast:

LastMantra

I for one have found this thread massively informative. I now know that some "pro set-ups" are better than others.

Where's the "roll eyes" smiley?

randomhandclaps

FelineGuitars said:

Back on subject we have done a few wide neck guitars for customers with big hands over the years.

Here is one such beast:

That absolute beauty appears to be missing a hole in the headstock.