I Miss... Buying Pedals...And The Simplicity Of It All... And, A Digital Moan !!

Wazmeister

Quite simply really, since my forages into the digital realm, I miss buying pedals !

I still look at the £FX every day, and miss the process of buying and selling those alluring little boxes. The excitement, the waiting for the post, the trying and even the flipping...

On top of it all, I miss the simplicity of it all. The digital realm, as good as it is, is really starting to piss me off a wee bit. The learning curve is so steep, and I'm spending more time delving into that rabbit hole.

The two bits of 'digital' I own are superb; Kemper and the Helix HX. The HX is literally faultless.

The Kemper can produce any amp sound you want IF you land the right profiles. My realisation is that I own two brilliant amps - Carr Rambler and Redplate CDS2; why would I want to model them ???????

And sound wise, with the band, I can JUST use the Redplate with its own boost/mids/drive footswitch. 

I dunno, maybe it's just because Im 51 tomorrow !!

I just miss buying pedals, and the simplicity of it all

billzabozo

I miss buying your pedals;)

Wazmeister

billzabozo said:

I miss buying your pedals;)

vasselmeyer

Why not both? Live a little, and you're not hurting anyone.

Musicman20

This is what I found when I had the Helix. I wasn't HUGELY impressed with the amps (although I did not want to spend hour and hours faffing) more so the clean amps. 

The effects were decent, but didn't blow my mind. I quite liked the drives. 

I am trying to stop myself buying a HX effects because in all honestly, I love the simplicity of a physical pedal. I just react better to tweaking a physical pedal.

Wazmeister

@Musicman20 - 'simplicity' is the key mate, and something I'm struggling with...

sweepy

I keep flip-flopping between digital and valves, my current setup is a huge ambient pedal board and a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30r, I used to have an Axe Fx2 and Helix Rack which sounded immense but always felt synthetic when you actually played it in anger but I still hanker after an Axe Fx3 ! maybe we are all a bit mad

JezWynd

I've always regarded music as a refuge from the digital world - Helix and the like have never held any allure for me. A pedal is such a simple response to a problem - Want a sound? Try x amount of small boxes until you find one that suits. Sorted.

Digital is both a blessing and a curse. My experience is more in picture than sound but I'm sure the process is the same. When I started editing film, it was done on a flat-bed Steenbeck machine where you would physically cut the film and stick the edits together with tape. It was a long, slow process that forced you to think very carefully about what the finished product should be. A simple dissolve would be drawn on the film with chinagraph pencil and then sent to a lab where the process would be put into effect. Each dissolve cost money which forced you to think "is it necessary, is it merited".

When digital came along it was fantastic, suddenly you weren't tied to a single narrative and before long you had multiple versions, each with its own possibilities. Nowadays editors will routinely drop a dissolve on a cut to make it work. It doesn't cost anything, there's immediate gratification. All that choice, and dithering, and constantly tweaking to see if it couldn't be that little bit better.

I miss film editing, it forced you to have imagination. And the end result of all this progress? Endless film and tv that looks the same. Any visual invention or new plugin 'look' is immediately jumped on and replicated ad nauseam.

Digital is a blessing, it's opened doors to industries for lots of people who were hitherto excluded as access to the kit was prohibitively expensive and dissemination of the resulting work has never been easier, but the instant gratification it offers has left us in a sea of images and sounds that resolve into a babble.

Wazmeister

@JezWynd - a simply awesome post mate !

Teetonetal

Is it simplicity though? Forever swapping in, out, rejigging leads, PSU requirements etc, etc. In terms of simplicity, the current digital crop has nailed it.

Not to mention the endless packaging up, taking to the post office, trading emails, checking paypal etc, etc.

and you still get the excitement of a FW update with new virtual toys.

stickyfiddle

One of us... one of us... one of us...

meltedbuzzbox

Teetonetal said:

Is it simplicity though? Forever swapping in, out, rejigging leads, PSU requirements etc, etc. In terms of simplicity, the current digital crop has nailed it.

Not to mention the endless packaging up, taking to the post office, trading emails, checking paypal etc, etc.

and you still get the excitement of a FW update with new virtual toys.

I think that depends on the size of your board to be honest. I have 2 loose cables and an unused psu cable sat there waiting for my Hudson Broadcast. Its not drama plugging it in when it eventually arrives. 

I also look at my board and there are things my Helix cant do. Decent fuzz sound? Nothing on the helix. Dawner Prince Boonar? Nothing on the helix. Eventide H9... not even close. But I am on the whole, not impressed with the effects on the helix. 

Then there are the pedals on the helix that have multiple pages of parameters. Sometimes there is a fair amount of scrolling, adjusting, button assign, move in the chain etc. 

I do look forward to updates though and I love how easy it makes recording but I think I will always lean towards amp and pedals, and I say that as a lazy sod. It just works better for me. 

Teetonetal

meltedbuzzbox said:

Teetonetal said:

Is it simplicity though? Forever swapping in, out, rejigging leads, PSU requirements etc, etc. In terms of simplicity, the current digital crop has nailed it.

Not to mention the endless packaging up, taking to the post office, trading emails, checking paypal etc, etc.

and you still get the excitement of a FW update with new virtual toys.

I think that depends on the size of your board to be honest. I have 2 loose cables and an unused psu cable sat there waiting for my Hudson Broadcast. Its not drama plugging it in when it eventually arrives. 

I also look at my board and there are things my Helix cant do. Decent fuzz sound? Nothing on the helix. Dawner Prince Boonar? Nothing on the helix. Eventide H9... not even close. But I am on the whole, not impressed with the effects on the helix. 

Then there are the pedals on the helix that have multiple pages of parameters. Sometimes there is a fair amount of scrolling, adjusting, button assign, move in the chain etc. 

I do look forward to updates though and I love how easy it makes recording but I think I will always lean towards amp and pedals, and I say that as a lazy sod. It just works better for me. 

as ever, there is no right or wrong, only what works for you.

I also still love my pedals and amps. I have 5 pedals hooked up to helix.

But I think it's just so easy to get caught always searching for something... Pedals seem to lend themselves to this, which ruins the simplicty.

Helix is complex, yet simple if you want
A pedal board is simple yet complex if you want

Endlessly being on a sound merry go round, fun, yes. simple, not so sure. I think it's a different thing.

JAYJO

Track or project templates in reaper suit me. My pedals are in a wardrobe. By the time i get them set up and spend a lifetime on the floor with my dodgey knees and aching back i cant be bothered. Now i just open a project and use a template. Guitar tone, bass etc is all there ready to go.ive only just started using this but i think you can have as many templates as you like its ace.

Wazmeister

I think, realistically, there is going to be only one way to solve this...

colourofsound

For me, its pretty simple.

Are you a gigging pro? On tour, or in a function band? Playing 4 gigs a week to feed your kids?

If so, digital is your man. You get everything you need in a portable package; you can tweak inbetween gigs based on your experience, but you're so busy practicing for that next gig that you never get swallowed by the rabbit hole that is layers and layers of settings menus. You need a unit that works, that is portable and sounds good. Digital.

Are you a 'passion' musician? Do you only gig once a week? Do you love fiddling at home with gear as much as you do playing?

Then you need the old skool! A nice amp, some pedals, a nice guitar. You can fiddle to your hearts content. You can decide how big or small you want your setup. You can buy and sell your gear based on your changing situation. You can dip your toe into digital if you want; or not. Why simplify things when part of the fun is building and tearing down?

Of course, I am massively generalising here; and we are all different. A session musician or studio engineer would be a mix of these two things, for example. Plus you'll get gigging musicians who will gig with a Princeton and a Telecaster, cased in a Mono bag with a Mono tick containing a Pedaltrain Mini sized board with just the essentials; similarly there are folk on here who are perfectly content with digital units and love the simplicity (relatively speaking) it affords them.

But I think for most of us, who are passionate hobbyists, digital has the initial wow factor that dulls over time. I've found that certain single digital units are amazing - like the Neunaber Slate - but others, like the Helix, try to do too much, and not well enough.

At the end of the day, we have a lot of time during our hobbyist hours to scrutinise the way everything sounds, and in my experience most digital products do not stand that test of scrutiny over time in the same way that classic analog or hybrid analog/digital setups can.

We're essentially audiophiles, gear snobs (in the nicest possible way) and I don't think digital is good enough (yet) to live up to the standard that solid state amps and circuits can provide.

John_A

Teetonetal said:

Is it simplicity though? Forever swapping in, out, rejigging leads, PSU requirements etc, etc. In terms of simplicity, the current digital crop has nailed it.

Not to mention the endless packaging up, taking to the post office, trading emails, checking paypal etc, etc.

and you still get the excitement of a FW update with new virtual toys.

Totally agree, my rig has never been simpler, it's a Helix and nothing else.  Do I miss scouring ebay for little sticky cable ties that are just the right size and colour?  Do I heck!  

Jonathanthomas83

Many of us go through these cycles of justification, feel disenchanted or disillusioned with a piece of gear and come back to the forum to seek validation about our choices. I did it last week regarding my Telecaster, I'm still undecided. Fact is, you'll get a tonne of people saying "welcome back to the real world" and others who will say that their setup has never been simpler using an all in one digital solution. There's no wrong or right answer here.

Do I miss having a tube amp? No. 

Do I miss pedals? Yes.

Have I started buying pedals again to offset that pang? Yes - fact is, I couldn't find some of the things I needed in the Kemper.

I use the Kemper as an amp, I pick a clean platform that sounds nice to me - and critically, I stick to it. I use it as a platform for a few pedals that I love, it works fantastically. I also like high gain stuff, the Kemper does that better than any pedal I've tried, so I use another profile or two for my high gain needs. It really is no more complicated than that. It IS my amp.

I have a need to keep volume down at times, so Kemper allows me to do that, as did my Axe FX, both superb. If you don't have that need for home practice, then an amp is as good a way to do as any.

If you do have that need, I don't see why you couldn't profile your amps and use those for quick plug in and play with the Kemper. If you want pedals, but them and use them with your amp - and/or the Kemper if that's what you want.

Don't limit yourself.

What is it that you struggle with? - If it's the learning curve, I'm surprised that's still an issue after you've had a few digital bits and pieces over the years, what is it that's becoming a blocker for you? How can we help?

If it's just that you want to go back to the pedal merry-go-round, then do it and make yourself happy mate! We all understand that because we all do it! :-) You can definitely use pedals with the Kemper though, I do it. Right now though, I'm struggling to understand your reasons for needing a Kemper when you're so attached to your amps.

Ultimately it comes down to this...what is your goal and what do you want to achieve? If you can answer this, there's light at the end of the tunnel.

VJIves

If nothing else, this thread has me dangerously close to buying a Boonar.

peteri

I think for me it's how you respond to digital.

I've found the opposite - I've gone from buying a ton of pedals regularly to actually not missing it at all - I have a bunch of sounds worked out and now I literally plug and play, I spend much longer playing than ever before and more guitar buying than pedals/amps.

It's also much more manageable volume wise.

Once in a while, I feel like a change so spend an hour or so programming a new to me amp, and that scratches that itch (for free!)

Two big steps for me were going FRFR and Fractal, both just fit and respond how I expect/like them to.

I think it's horses for courses too, if I was gigging regularly, playing a single style of music - then maybe I'd go amp and a couple of pedals - but I like a variety of sounds, and honestly the thought of plugging in a lot of pedals again fills me with dread!

Paul_C

I much prefer pedals, but that's because my pedals mostly make weird noises

My problem has been spending too much time buying and not enough time experimenting. I'd still like to buy more but spare  money right now is needed to entertain my daughter either by taking her out or buying Lego Legends Of Chima stuff, which is her latest craze.

Because of this I've been able to start exploring a bit more just what some of the more neglected pedals can do - I found some great sounds in my Liqua-Flange the other day and there are some (like the Arpanoid) where I've only found one or two sounds so far, but I know there must be lots more.

I'm sure it would be fun to mess around with something like a Helix, but I doubt I'd spend as much time tinkering as I do with separate pedals.