And we wonder why the high street is going down the tubes...

OilCityPickups

guitars4you said:

OilCityPickups said:

FelineGuitars said:

Starting to think that many simply wait for the closing down/liquidation of stock sales (and then moan about there being no shops to look at things in)

This ... absolutely.

We are about to start selling strings, pics, etc, and some hardware etc as we have a high street address and people keep finding us on Google as a music retailer. We will make beggar all much on these, but feel, seeing as all the local music shops have closed down, we look at as a service for the local community.

Be careful Ash - the strings, pics, cables and many other accessories are fairly easy to monitor, control, sell etc

Hardware is more of a hiding to nothing these days - Take machine heads - Far to many options - Take nylon strung - 3 on a plate or single tuners - Plain buttons or deluxe - chrome or gold - Then add steel string options and I guarantee that if you have 20 different sets in stock, the first customer request you have will be for something you don't have in stock - 3 a side - 6 a side- chrome or nickel, even gold or black chrome - Vintage style or modern - Tulip or kidney buttons - locking or non-locking - staggered string posts or traditional vintage etc - And that is before having to find the appropriate tuners with the brand name logos on them 

I opened 15 years ago - I still have some spares in stock I purchased almost 15 years ago and have never sold - Yet they are the type of tuners found on many far eastern mid/budget based - You will have some stock that just won't sell

More pickup related hardware ... rings etc.

professorben

midlifecrisis said:

i notice theres a general attitude with consumers these days, not just guitars but other products. If dealer A has a product for sale at £200 and then Dealer B has the same product for £190 its assumed dealer A is ripping everyone off, and dealer B is the honest seller. Then dealer C comes along and offers same product for £180 and makes dealers A and B villains.  Is this what is meant as the race to the bottom.

And who benefits from this? 

The customer. 

Retail is there to service the needs of the Customer. 

If all the retailers sold everything at the same price the customer would buy it anyway, the retailers would make a decent margin and everyone would be happy. 

Retailers discount, thus making a rod for their own back, the decline in retail is due in the most part to discounting retailers causing the above issues. 

You can’t blame people for wanting to spend less on things. 

midlifecrisis

professorben said:

midlifecrisis said:

i notice theres a general attitude with consumers these days, not just guitars but other products. If dealer A has a product for sale at £200 and then Dealer B has the same product for £190 its assumed dealer A is ripping everyone off, and dealer B is the honest seller. Then dealer C comes along and offers same product for £180 and makes dealers A and B villains.  Is this what is meant as the race to the bottom.

And who benefits from this? 

The customer. 

Retail is there to service the needs of the Customer. 

If all the retailers sold everything at the same price the customer would buy it anyway, the retailers would make a decent margin and everyone would be happy. 

Retailers discount, thus making a rod for their own back, the decline in retail is due in the most part to discounting retailers causing the above issues. 

You can’t blame people for wanting to spend less on things. 

yes thats true. i feel sorry for retailers, unfortunately im not much use to them as my purchases of guitars are private 2nd hand

ICBM

midlifecrisis said:

i feel sorry for retailers, unfortunately im not much use to them as my purchases of guitars are private 2nd hand

You don’t need to apologise - in the long run second hand is where the small bricks-and-mortar ships will survive, as well as with repairs. There are still a lot of customers wary about buying and selling privately, and shops can offer trade-ins, warranties etc. Even if you’re buying privately you’re still helping to support the secondary market.

siremoon

RonnieHotdogs said:

I don't understand anyone spending thousands on a guitar without playing it, so what are SE London/Kent higher end guitar buyers meant to do ? 
Or are there shops I have missed? 

Basically you have to go to Epsom, Guildford or Farnham.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

midlifecrisis said:

i feel sorry for retailers, unfortunately im not much use to them as my purchases of guitars are private 2nd hand

You don’t need to apologise - in the long run second hand is where the small bricks-and-mortar ships will survive, as well as with repairs. There are still a lot of customers wary about buying and selling privately, and shops can offer trade-ins, warranties etc. Even if you’re buying privately you’re still helping to support the secondary market.

A strong point - I was chatting to a small retailer the other day at a guitar show and he has about 40 used guitars in stock - All are commission sales, - As such he has not even had to finance a large part of his stock holding - The other side of the coin is private sales via FB, E-bay and reverb etc are all potential competitors 

stickyfiddle

siremoon said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

I don't understand anyone spending thousands on a guitar without playing it, so what are SE London/Kent higher end guitar buyers meant to do ? 
Or are there shops I have missed? 

Basically you have to go to Epsom, Guildford or Farnham.

I'd have thought Braintree & Stevenage for Peach & Coda might be easier/better, depending on where exactly you are in the SE. But depends what you're looking to buy, I suppose.

crunchman

siremoon said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

I don't understand anyone spending thousands on a guitar without playing it, so what are SE London/Kent higher end guitar buyers meant to do ? 
Or are there shops I have missed? 

Basically you have to go to Epsom, Guildford or Farnham.

In some ways that isn't that different to what it was 30 years ago in some parts of the country.

My home town only had a shop that did mainly pianos and classical, and a dodgy second hand shop that did guitars.

I could go into Exeter, but neither of the shops there did Gibson or Fender.  Bill Greenhalgh's did Ibanez, and had some of their higher end stuff.  There was one up the other end towards the Exeter CIty ground, but that didn't do Gibson or Fender either.  I'm not sure where the nearest Martin dealer was.

If I'd had the money, I think I would have had to travel to Plymouth or Bristol to find a Gibson or Fender.  Either of those would have been about 70 miles.  As it was, I bought second hand Ibanez Roadstar in the dodgy second hand shop in town - only to realise a few months later that one of the locking saddles on the weird horrible trem was broken.

gregm

I feel one of the biggest factors in diminishing younger players choosing guitar as an instrument is the lack of local shops and expertise, where I grew up there were 3 guitar shops and everyone dreamed of getting a guitar from them and saved their money to be one of the lucky ones. There are 2 sides to this, the seasoned guitarist that can choose to buy online and setup the guitar to their liking or they know what they want and price is the main factor is fine and I understand this decision in the current environment where quality is so far from what it was 20 years ago. But starting out learning to play buying a guitar online is a bit sterile. You need the passion, experience and choice first hand to inspire that a local store should have.

I have bought 2 guitars online new, the first one came without the chargers and batteries required to make the robot elements work and was lightly scratched on the back. Many emails later and phone calls I got the battery and charger, then offered 50-100 off my next purchase of a guitar from them for the £1900 Gibson I had just spent on what had to be a used product. Few months ago I chose to try again and buy online new, had many issues with the guitar and ended up being one of the biggest jokes of a situation I have ever found myself in. The sad fact is that it is not about anything else when it comes to guitars in my opinion but expectations being met and the chance to try the instrument before you hand over your cash.

If I buy second hand I know I am taking a chance and everything can be fixed, but buying new has to be worth the investment and the only way to do this is to have the chance to call in to a store and have the experience. Although I do feel under-qualified about playing a guitar in a shop, it will save money and hassle as I have had nothing but bad experiences from retailers online and buying a guitar cannot be compared to any other online purchase.

Amps online I get, 2nd hand guitars online I understand, but new instruments I feel is working against the inspired element of what a great instrument can bring regardless of price or brand. I travel to Germany for work often and never miss the opportunity of getting to a few stores there and just feeling that awe when you see all the guitars they have and the welcome and the conversation that flows.

Distance and fewer guitar shops mean less choice, it is up to the guitar companies to police the difference in prices not the stores. If they let the price difference get to the ridiculous then they should expect to sell fewer instruments!

 

RonnieHotdogs

In a previous life  I worked in hi end HIFI retail. The few shops remaining are only still there because the manufacturers are really good at protecting the prices, if anyone discounts, they lose the account, it works, and you can't buy cheaper online.

siremoon

stickyfiddle said:

siremoon said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

I don't understand anyone spending thousands on a guitar without playing it, so what are SE London/Kent higher end guitar buyers meant to do ? 
Or are there shops I have missed? 

Basically you have to go to Epsom, Guildford or Farnham.

I'd have thought Braintree & Stevenage for Peach & Coda might be easier/better, depending on where exactly you are in the SE. But depends what you're looking to buy, I suppose.

If you're in Kent then it also depends on how much you hate the Dartford Crossing.

sev112

RonnieHotdogs said:

In a previous life  I worked in hi end HIFI retail. The few shops remaining are only still there because the manufacturers are really good at protecting the prices, if anyone discounts, they lose the account, it works, and you can't buy cheaper online.

Richer Sounds model?

sev112

So what are our thoughts if the Distance selling Regs were retracted?  Perhaps even to the extent that they remain if good are faulty only?

professorben

sev112 said:

So what are our thoughts if the Distance selling Regs were retracted?  Perhaps even to the extent that they remain if good are faulty only?

Because removing consumer protection is a good idea. 

sev112

Why does it remove consumer protection? I grant it would retract additional consumer benefits , but at the benefit of revitalising the high street.

is a view

bgmartinsbridge

I sort of agree on removal of the 30 days returns policy, in part. Obv leave it for faulty and not as described but not change if mind. 

Look at companies like Asos would have a 50% returns rate and are actively closing peoples accounts down due to abuse. 

Wonder how much packing and fossil fuel is wasted each year through returns. 

Universal8

stickyfiddle said:

siremoon said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

I don't understand anyone spending thousands on a guitar without playing it, so what are SE London/Kent higher end guitar buyers meant to do ? 
Or are there shops I have missed? 

Basically you have to go to Epsom, Guildford or Farnham.

I'd have thought Braintree & Stevenage for Peach & Coda might be easier/better, depending on where exactly you are in the SE. But depends what you're looking to buy, I suppose.

Peach is in Colchester, around 15 miles from Braintree.

ICBM

professorben said:

sev112 said:

So what are our thoughts if the Distance selling Regs were retracted?  Perhaps even to the extent that they remain if good are faulty only?

Because removing consumer protection is a good idea. 

I would like to see them retracted or at least made much more restrictive. It shouldn't remove protection for faulty goods or not fit for purpose - just remove the right to return at the seller's expense due to buyer's remorse or playing the system.

It's particularly bad in the clothing trade - it's very common for people to order more than one item knowing in advance that they're going to return all but one. This is an abuse of the regulations and causes huge costs for sellers, as well as being extremely wasteful - but is entirely legal under the current rules. I'm also certain that it happens in the musical instrument business too. A lot of people are honest and don't abuse it, but many do and it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole thing for everyone.

Danny1969

I would agree with the removal of the distance selling regs for non faulty goods too .... people abuse it as a "try before you buy" then moan when they receive something that looks repackaged and slightly used. When I was involved in service parts for laptops on a very large scale we refused any returns that weren't faulty and any service  parts that the customer had used in their misdiagnosis  .... people would order an inverter on the phone because their backlight wasn't working .... they would fit my one and still no backlight because the problem would an insulation breakdown of the LCD causing the inverters to turn off to protect themselves. Then I would explain this to them and they would want to send back the inverter because it wasn't going to be of any use to them and I would charge them a 25% restock ..... why should I have to lose out due to their misdiagnosis was my argument. To be fair I don't remember any big arguments ... most people were pretty accepting. 

Do Valve suppliers accept valves back knowing some are coming back because the amp has some other fault and the valves coming back have been severely  stressed   due to that ? 

stickyfiddle

Universal8 said:

stickyfiddle said:

siremoon said:

RonnieHotdogs said:

I don't understand anyone spending thousands on a guitar without playing it, so what are SE London/Kent higher end guitar buyers meant to do ? 
Or are there shops I have missed? 

Basically you have to go to Epsom, Guildford or Farnham.

I'd have thought Braintree & Stevenage for Peach & Coda might be easier/better, depending on where exactly you are in the SE. But depends what you're looking to buy, I suppose.

Peach is in Colchester, around 15 miles from Braintree.

Ah, yes. I knew they'd moved from one in each town to a bigger shop in one of them but remembered it backwards