Football - Euro 2020 Championship

digitalscream

viz said:

Creed_Clicks said:

 what about Chiellinis tackle late on. Sublime 

I don’t know why that wasn’t a red card. 

https://youtu.be/Mt0DO2bDReg

For what it's worth, that would likely have been a yellow card in rugby.

GoldenEraGuitars

https://i.imgur.com/ApqvRrp.jpg

viz

digitalscream said:

viz said:

Creed_Clicks said:

 what about Chiellinis tackle late on. Sublime 

I don’t know why that wasn’t a red card. 

https://youtu.be/Mt0DO2bDReg

For what it's worth, that would likely have been a yellow card in rugby.

Yep. I think Italy played quite well, Donnarumma was fabulous in goal especially in the penalties, and they kicked well, and there are no sour grapes - they had the match in the 2nd half and they edged us, and I wish them a lovely evening of celebration!

But that foul was absolutely awful, Chiellini is a total disgrace. I don’t think he should be revered, he should surely lose his job for that. 

And what’s ultra depressing is I’ve just seen some of the comments on youtube praising his actions. There are some serious racists around. Omg. 

Springywheel

^ nothing wrong with that - he took a yellow for the team. He was not the last man so a red would have been harsh.

duotone

musteatbrain said:

Cautious approach caught up in the end but it did get them a long way. I have no understanding of why Mount is so valued, good first touch and defensive effort but not enough end product going forward today and most of the tournament. 

Rice played well today.

overall an improvement though

It seems that managers like his work rate. He would run through a brick wall if his manager told him to. 

digitalscream

Springywheel said:

^ nothing wrong with that - he took a yellow for the team. He was not the last man so a red would have been harsh. 

Having thought about it a bit more, it was deliberate, dishonest, and dangerous play. That sort of thing would be risking a red in rugby, depending on the ref; for it to be considered "nothing wrong" in a non-contact sport like football is ridiculous.

If that's a genuinely accepted tactic in football, then it just reinforces my opinion of the game.

DefaultM

I'd bet on a 1-1 after 90 minutes, but thought England would then go on to win. Broke even for the tournament on my bets, so overall a bit of an anticlimax but I've had fun. 

Springywheel

digitalscream said:

Springywheel said:

^ nothing wrong with that - he took a yellow for the team. He was not the last man so a red would have been harsh. 

Having thought about it a bit more, it was deliberate, dishonest, and dangerous play. That sort of thing would be risking a red in rugby, depending on the ref; for it to be considered "nothing wrong" in a non-contact sport like football is ridiculous.

If that's a genuinely accepted tactic in football, then it just reinforces my opinion of the game.

Footballers make 'professional' (i.e. deliberate) fouls all the time when in precarious positions. In this case it was a bit more obvious and dramatic, as opposed to the usual clip across the heels, or holding back of an arm, but no more punishable. With two other players still in line, a yellow is the correct decision (The studs in challenge on grealish is another matter, and on another day that would have been a red). It's a divisive subject but the dark arts are part of the game, not just football. Obviously some things overstep the mark like the Hand of God, Ramos v salah, or Henry vs Ireland. 

danishbacon

Springywheel said:

digitalscream said:

Springywheel said:

^ nothing wrong with that - he took a yellow for the team. He was not the last man so a red would have been harsh. 

Having thought about it a bit more, it was deliberate, dishonest, and dangerous play. That sort of thing would be risking a red in rugby, depending on the ref; for it to be considered "nothing wrong" in a non-contact sport like football is ridiculous.

If that's a genuinely accepted tactic in football, then it just reinforces my opinion of the game.

Footballers make 'professional' (i.e. deliberate) fouls all the time when in precarious positions. In this case it was a bit more obvious and dramatic, as opposed to the usual clip across the heels, or holding back of an arm, but no more punishable. With two other players still in line, a yellow is the correct decision. The studs in challenge on grealish is another matter, and on another day that would have been a red. It's a divisive subject but the dark arts are part of the game, not just football. Obviously some things overstep the mark, like the maradonna in 86, or Henry vs Ireland. 

Watching the Jorginho foul again a few times it does not look deliberate at all. https://youtu.be/Yt6dYZWNjBA

Springywheel

Didn't say it was. Just a stupid attempt to play the ball that on another day would resulted in a red

TeleMaster

This is agonising. Congrats to the Italians. I'm drunk and devastated. 

But what a tournament for us. I'm grateful for that at least. 

strtdv

I'm not sure I watched the same match as the commentators. What I saw was England play well for about 15 minutes followed by a defensive strategy (albeit their defence is pretty good) in the hope of surviving the remaining 75 minutes, which when Italy finally turned up was always going to be a losing strategy. They were lucky to survive until penalties.

This was interspersed with England giving away possession far too easily with a combination of loose play with the ball in the air, and long optimistic passes to no-one in particular (or no-one at all), instead of keeping the ball at ground level and playing short tight passes and a scoping out the Italian defence to force an error or find space for a break. The Italians adopted this strategy after about 20 minutes and it worked for them.

munckee

I think Italy pressed us so well we lost our normal composure with the ball. Italy were the better side for 70 minutes but I thought we were better in extra time. 

Penalties is penalties and we should have adopted a 10 man shit or bust attack as we would inevitably lose on pens. Pickford was great, Walker was great all tournament, Rice had his best game. 

Creed_Clicks

viz said:

digitalscream said:

viz said:

Creed_Clicks said:

 what about Chiellinis tackle late on. Sublime 

I don’t know why that wasn’t a red card. 

https://youtu.be/Mt0DO2bDReg

For what it's worth, that would likely have been a yellow card in rugby.

Yep. I think Italy played quite well, Donnarumma was fabulous in goal especially in the penalties, and they kicked well, and there are no sour grapes - they had the match in the 2nd half and they edged us, and I wish them a lovely evening of celebration!

But that foul was absolutely awful, Chiellini is a total disgrace. I don’t think he should be revered, he should surely lose his job for that. 

And what’s ultra depressing is I’ve just seen some of the comments on youtube praising his actions. There are some serious racists around. Omg. 

oh please …. “lose his job”if an England player did it you’d be singing a different tune.
The tackle on Sterling I meant.
Sterling went looking for another penalty as well. You got lucky with the penalty in the semi so swings and roundabouts etc.

Axe_meister

I know bugger all about football, bit watched the Germany and Denmark games. England was a different team compared to those matches except the first 15mins and some flashes in extra time.
Sterling and Kane seemed to have lost their drive.

scrumhalf

Oh well, I'm disappointed but life goes on.

Some very poor penalties (contrast Kane's straightforward run up and shot with later attempts at being a smartarse) and a lack of penetration behind the Italian defence did for us.

Not enough balls into the box, Sterling trying to beat one man too many too often and falling over.

We won't do this well in Qatar, the heat will kill us. 

viz

Creed_Clicks said:

viz said:

digitalscream said:

viz said:

Creed_Clicks said:

 what about Chiellinis tackle late on. Sublime 

I don’t know why that wasn’t a red card. 

https://youtu.be/Mt0DO2bDReg

For what it's worth, that would likely have been a yellow card in rugby.

Yep. I think Italy played quite well, Donnarumma was fabulous in goal especially in the penalties, and they kicked well, and there are no sour grapes - they had the match in the 2nd half and they edged us, and I wish them a lovely evening of celebration!

But that foul was absolutely awful, Chiellini is a total disgrace. I don’t think he should be revered, he should surely lose his job for that. 

And what’s ultra depressing is I’ve just seen some of the comments on youtube praising his actions. There are some serious racists around. Omg. 

oh please …. “lose his job”if an England player did it you’d be singing a different tune.

No I wouldn’t. I think it was a very bad action, regardless of who did it. I don’t think a player should be allowed to play if they do those deliberate dangerous acts, it doesn’t make any difference to me what part of the game it is, what position they are in, who they are. To me (not knowing football), in any job, that’s a sacking offence. Italy played better than England, Italy won, it was an exciting game, even for someone who has no interest in football, to watch. But that was dangerous and it was horrible. What would we think if we saw that happening on the street?

Creed_Clicks

@viz ill assume you’re on the wind up then. “Sackable offence” ffs. At least you admitted you don’t know anything about football.
On a side note what about the general thuggery, again, by some England fans outside the stadium and online. 

p90fool

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Philly_Q said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

penalties is a crap way to separate teams 

It is, but I'm not sure what alternatives would be better.  Not Golden Goal, that's for sure.

I quite like that though tbh. At that point it’s still about the game itself rather than watching a defender trying to score a penalty. But as an ice hockey fan (mainly) I don’t watch football enough (at all!) to have an educated opinion about it 

Golden goal never worked when it was tried, the fact that there's no coming back from conceding a goal meant that everyone just shut up shop and waited out the half hour of extra time.

digitalscream

Springywheel said:

digitalscream said:

Springywheel said:

^ nothing wrong with that - he took a yellow for the team. He was not the last man so a red would have been harsh. 

Having thought about it a bit more, it was deliberate, dishonest, and dangerous play. That sort of thing would be risking a red in rugby, depending on the ref; for it to be considered "nothing wrong" in a non-contact sport like football is ridiculous.

If that's a genuinely accepted tactic in football, then it just reinforces my opinion of the game.

Footballers make 'professional' (i.e. deliberate) fouls all the time when in precarious positions. In this case it was a bit more obvious and dramatic, as opposed to the usual clip across the heels, or holding back of an arm, but no more punishable. With two other players still in line, a yellow is the correct decision (The studs in challenge on grealish is another matter, and on another day that would have been a red). It's a divisive subject but the dark arts are part of the game, not just football. Obviously some things overstep the mark like the Hand of God, Ramos v salah, or Henry vs Ireland. 

No, this wasn't "a bit more obvious and dramatic". It was yanking the player's shirt with enough force that it could have caused damage to his windpipe, and the force with which he hit the ground could've caused a head injury. Not only that, but he was clearly trying to do so from the beginning of contact.

But hey...as I said, if that sort of thing's acceptable in football, then it's just another reason not to watch. The governing body could easily stamp it out with a 10 minute sin-bin for yellows and mandatory yellow/red for dangerous play, just like in rugby, but they don't because the fans obviously don't object.