The Doctor Who thread

Jalapeno

All seems very laboured so far. 

Fantastic Voyage script lift was very lame. Resistance is futile (pronounced properly) was good as The Borg are nicked from The Daleks.

So far meh ....

Lixarto

Borg are Cybermen surely?

Jalapeno

A combo

The malevolence is definitely from the Daleks

Fretwired

Myranda said:

A better question is not how did they get in, but how they got out? They didn't teach the Dalek to be nice... they taught it a hatred so pure that it over-rode it's normal function of killing other things... it didn't declare that suddenly it loved all life, so why bother to allow the tiny humans to leave? 

I thought the Dalek ended up with a pathological hatred of the Dalek race because they had destroyed other worlds and galaxies. I don't think it hated the Doctor and his companions. It went off in pursuit of the main Dalek ship.

How did they get out? There was some talk of a button on a bracelet ...

Fretwired

Lixarto said:

Borg are Cybermen surely?

The Borg and Cybermen are pretty different. The Cybermen have their own identity and only have a human brain - the rest is technology. The Borg work as a collective with the drones having no personal identity; they have a hierarchy and utilise the best of organic and synthetic technology based on the race that has been assimilated.

Lixarto

True, but the Trek guy pretty much admitted they stole the original idea from Cybermen.

They dressed it up well

Myranda

digitalscream said:

Myranda said:

A better question is not how did they get in, but how they got out? They didn't teach the Dalek to be nice... they taught it a hatred so pure that it over-rode it's normal function of killing other things... it didn't declare that suddenly it loved all life, so why bother to allow the tiny humans to leave? 

To borrow from the programme itself...do you "allow" infectious bacteria to enter or leave your body, or do they just come and go as they please?

Equally do I safely allow infections bacteria to leave in such a way that they're able to be collected and de-miniaturised in a proper location?

Fretwired

Lixarto said:

True, but the Trek guy pretty much admitted they stole the original idea from Cybermen.

They dressed it up well

I think its obvious that the Star Trek team were influenced by Doctor Who. All sci-fi shows copy and recycle ideas - there's nothing wrong in it.

Lixarto

Indeed - without Wells there is no SF

digitalscream

Myranda said:

Equally do I safely allow infections bacteria to leave in such a way that they're able to be collected and de-miniaturised in a proper location?

Well, at that point I think it's safe to say that the humans' goal was fairly well-aligned with the Dalek's (in fact, they provided its motivation), so it wouldn't be logical for it to kill them. The Dalek's basic programming hadn't changed - it's still all about the hate, it just had a different target and so it'd still be a fairly logic-based killing machine.

Fretwired

Lixarto said:

Indeed - without Wells there is no SF

And Verne although it could be argued Mary Shelley's Frankenstein was the first modern science fiction book.

Myranda

Cyborgs can be first found in fiction in 1879 from the pen of Edward Page Mitchell ... many literary cyborgs lose their humanity as they increase the number of upgrades. The Borg and Cybermen are merely a logical(ish) extrapolations of that idea both could equally exist with the writers never being aware of each others work.

However, Old-school cybermen pre-date the writing of the borg by some time... and they are very very similar. Biological entities upgraded with technology who attempt to upgrade all that they encounter often against the will of the intended target. In more recent years the cybermen have been fleshed out a bit (pardon the pun) to include queen like cycbercontrollers connected by comms links... making them even more similar with their shared purpose and consciousness. 

suspiciousminds

I wasnt too excited by last nites episode, i found it a bit similar to the earlier ecclestone episode.
That said its left the door open for a further confrontation with the daleks.

Lixarto

Fretwired said:

Lixarto said:

Indeed - without Wells there is no SF

And Verne although it could be argued Mary Shelley's Frankenstein was the first modern science fiction book.

No argument from me

DiscoStu

Fretwired said:

 All sci-fi shows copy and recycle ideas - there's nothing wrong in it.

Last night's episode had two Star Wars lifts as well as the Trek/Fantastic Voyage ones.

The Aristotle hiding in the asteroid belt mirrors the Falcon hiding in Empire, and the gang sliding down the tube in to the organic waste pit is the trash compactor scene from New Hope.

I'm all for nods and references but they went overboard on this one!

ICBM

DiscoStu said:

The Aristotle hiding in the asteroid belt mirrors the Falcon hiding in Empire, and the gang sliding down the tube in to the organic waste pit is the trash compactor scene from New Hope Star Wars.

Corrected.

DiscoStu

ICBM said:

DiscoStu said:

The Aristotle hiding in the asteroid belt mirrors the Falcon hiding in Empire, and the gang sliding down the tube in to the organic waste pit is the trash compactor scene from New Hope Star Wars.

Corrected.

You know, I thought about it before I typed it. I went with the wrong 'un!

Fretwired

DiscoStu said:

Fretwired said:

 All sci-fi shows copy and recycle ideas - there's nothing wrong in it.

Last night's episode had two Star Wars lifts as well as the Trek/Fantastic Voyage ones.

The Aristotle hiding in the asteroid belt mirrors the Falcon hiding in Empire, and the gang sliding down the tube in to the organic waste pit is the trash compactor scene from New Hope.

I'm all for nods and references but they went overboard on this one!

I tend to agree .. I was merely referring to the Cybermen/Borg. I think the Trek guys did enough to make them different.

There was also an element from the Terminator franchise. Turning a cyborg so that it attacks its creators. 

And there's a bit of footage on the web showing rusty beam Star Trek style onto the Dalek ship and self destruct blowing it up. I wonder why they cut it.

And my money's on Clara leaving as I'm sure we're seen her replacement.

ICBM

I actually quite like all the cross-referencing and influencing - it's building a sort of coherent parallel universe.

Lixarto

Jenna is leaving, yes.