The Football Thread.

Shrews

Thing is when we have had managers playing attractive football we've moaned about it, typically because it didn't get us anywhere.

Right now, after nearly 60 years of not winning something I would like to dance in the streets like we see other countries do:

- The Spanish with their Tika Taka (so boring it makes Southgate look like Brazil of 1970)

- Italians with their unchanging defensive mentality

 - the one man bands of Argentina and Portugal, but otherwise pretty average 

- Germans with their 'efficiency'. Effective but hardly entertaining.

The only reason the fans loved them was because they won.

But the most entertaining football was Brazil of 1982 (lost) and Holland 1974 (lost). Both of those sides (and fans) would've loved just to won. Along the way many sides have been 'entertaining' (including us) only to burn out, struggle with injuries or been found out for lack of depth in the squad.

Right now we've played poorly but still found ourselves topping the group and on the right side of the draw.

It might all come together at some point. 

victorludorum

Those bloody efficient Germans, eh! Who on here wouldn't kill to see Klopp managing this group of players?

Philly_Q

munckee said:

In general I would, I'd rather see us attack and watch great football.  If we 1-0 it to the final from here on in and win the tournament I'm guessing most English people would be happy though.

They'd only be happy immediately after that final whistle on 14 July.  They'd be moaning like fuck up until then.

TeleMaster

Shrews said:

Thing is when we have had managers playing attractive football we've moaned about it, typically because it didn't get us anywhere.

I don't think anyone moaned about Bobby Robson and Venables though? They were the last teams to play properly attractive football I think and I distinctly remembered everyone being devastated that El Tel lost his job.

DrCornelius

I think Spain are moving away from too much tippy tappy - I’ve seen some lovely direct stuff from them this tournament , especially down the wings .  I’d love to see at least one performance like that from England but I fear that even if we start like that , as soon as we get a goal we will retreat and play deep possession football 

rze99

victorludorum said:

Those bloody efficient Germans, eh! Who on here wouldn't kill to see Klopp managing this group of players?

I would expect that Klopp knows not to step into that elephant trap.... he'll have more attractive opportunities. It's a thankless role, quite frankly.

guitars4you

TeleMaster said:

Shrews said:

Thing is when we have had managers playing attractive football we've moaned about it, typically because it didn't get us anywhere.

I don't think anyone moaned about Bobby Robson and Venables though? They were the last teams to play properly attractive football I think and I distinctly remembered everyone being devastated that El Tel lost his job.

The WC in Italy, we only just qualified with Robson from the group stage - There was a lot of unrest and I believe/recall that it was the players that convinced him to change the formation/set-up/starting line up - Yes he became a bit of a 'hero' after, what with so close yet so far v Germany, but there was issues at the time

sev112

Does no one remember the group stage of Italia 90 and the “fabulous” Terry Venables - it was almost as boring and rubbish as this group of matches.  After the first crap game, we had Scotland , taht should have been easy. At half time I wanted to give up on football it was so bad.  We were so lucky McCallister took a rubbish penalty.  Albeit Gacoigne did nutmeg Hendry over his head, but honestly it was appalling.  Our memories are so short and the reality forgotten 

guitars4you

I'm playing all the right players - Not necessarily in the right positions

Philly_Q

sev112 said:

Does no one remember the group stage of Italia 90 and the “fabulous” Terry Venables - it was almost as boring and rubbish as this group of matches.  After the first crap game, we had Scotland , taht should have been easy. At half time I wanted to give up on football it was so bad.  We were so lucky McCallister took a rubbish penalty.  Albeit Gacoigne did nutmeg Hendry over his head, but honestly it was appalling.  Our memories are so short and the reality forgotten 

I think people just liked Venables because he was a dodgy Cockney wheeler-dealer and didn't seem like an "FA man".  Fans wanted him to be England manager, they now look back on his time with rose-tinted specs, but it seemed like same-old same-old when he was actually in the job.

Boromedic

Yep, we've generally not done that well in group matches and kind of scraped through in 90. Especially against Cameroon in the quarters.

Shrews

TeleMaster said:

Shrews said:

Thing is when we have had managers playing attractive football we've moaned about it, typically because it didn't get us anywhere.

I don't think anyone moaned about Bobby Robson and Venables though? They were the last teams to play properly attractive football I think and I distinctly remembered everyone being devastated that El Tel lost his job.

Bobby Robson was massively criticised by media and fans alike right up to the 1990 World Cup. As remarkable as it seems now he didn't know whether Gascoigne should go even the fans were crying out for some creativity (sound familiar). Gazza was given a friendly to prove himself (Czechoslovakia I think) and played a blinder (possibly ignoring instruction but impossible to ignore). Also during his time was the Hateley v Lineker conundrum. He preferred Hateley but (from memory) it was an injury to him that allowed Lineker more time to establish himself.

Venables for sure was well liked by fans but so was Sven! But they all failed.

And quite frankly I'm fed up with having managers who seem to promise so much but fail to deliver and would much rather someone who can win something. Keep it cool, shut out the outdoor world, keep the players fresh and peaking at the right time.

Sure, he may not be good enough. But he did get us further than any other manager in the last Euros and surely knows now that we need enough in the tank to get the job done in the final, not burn out in the group stage. 

I want it to all come together in the final, just keeping winning and hopefully have enough to see it through. 

TeleMaster

Shrews said:

TeleMaster said:

Shrews said:

Thing is when we have had managers playing attractive football we've moaned about it, typically because it didn't get us anywhere.

I don't think anyone moaned about Bobby Robson and Venables though? They were the last teams to play properly attractive football I think and I distinctly remembered everyone being devastated that El Tel lost his job.

Bobby Robson was massively criticised by media and fans alike right up to the 1990 World Cup. As remarkable as it seems now he didn't know whether Gascoigne should go even the fans were crying out for some creativity (sound familiar). Gazza was given a friendly to prove himself (Czechoslovakia I think) and played a blinder (possibly ignoring instruction but impossible to ignore). Also during his time was the Hateley v Lineker conundrum. He preferred Hateley but (from memory) it was an injury to him that allowed Lineker more time to establish himself.

Venables for sure was well liked by fans but so was Sven! But they all failed.

And quite frankly I'm fed up with having managers who seem to promise so much but fail to deliver and would much rather someone who can win something. Keep it cool, shut out the outdoor world, keep the players fresh and peaking at the right time.

Sure, he may not be good enough. But he did get us further than any other manager in the last Euros and surely knows now that we need enough in the tank to get the job done in the final, not burn out in the group stage. 

I want it to all come together in the final, just keeping winning and hopefully have enough to see it through. 

Fair enough, I was very young at the time. I do remember them both with fondness though. Sven I feel a bit meh about, likeable as a guy but a bit mediocre as our manager. 

tony99

sev112 said:

We were so lucky McCallister took a rubbish penalty. 

And lucky Uri Geller was around!

p90fool

Shrews said:

And quite frankly I'm fed up with having managers who seem to promise so much but fail to deliver and would much rather someone who can win something. 

If every single manager fails to deliver for over five decades despite some of them being world class and extremely successful in previous roles, maybe the manager was never the issue?

People get wrapped up in the whole soap opera of players and their personalities, without considering the possibility that a soap opera they're unfamiliar with from some other corner of Europe may simply be better than the one they know and love. 

guitars4you

I expect that Italy v Switzerland could go either way - I'm edging towards Italy

Expect Germany to beat Denmark

Shrews

Italy 1 Switz 0

Boring, boring, Italy! But fans celebrating and supporting their manager and players across the nation.

Germany 1 Denmark 1 (Germany win on pens) 

Boring, boring, Germany! But fans celebrating and supporting their manager and players across the nation.

Tomorrow

England 2 Slovakia 0 (aet)

Southgate out! 

p90fool

There's some old Cockney Wankah type on R4 right now who says there aren't any teams on England's side of the draw before the final who can beat them. 


EDIT; It's Harry Redknapp

guitars4you

I hear reports that Southgate has banned the players from voting in next weeks election - Due to the fact that he knows they can't put crosses in the box 

UnclePsychosis

I do wonder who exactly England fans who claim that winning a trophy playing boring football would be rubbish and wouldn't really count think they're kidding. Its a laughable assertion.

I suspect that part of the "problem" is that national teams are followed by part time supporters who don't really understand football and are even more fickle than the regulars. 

If Gareth Southgate picks up the trophy in a few weeks time the u-turn from Sinner to Saint will be even faster than it was when Diana died. 

From the outside it's astounding that Southgate gets as hard a time as he does. He's done a fantastic job but for whatever reason the English media, and some of their fans, seem to have an almost pathological need for England to toxically self-destruct.