The F1 thread

Boromedic

Sorry to hear that, I'm completely the opposite! Vettel has had a massive lucky period for the rest of his entire career to be honest, I don't feel sorry for him at all it's about time in fact......

chillidoggy

Apparently Vettel's problem was caused by a faulty spark plug!

I too, would have preferred to see him and Hamster duke it out, but Max was class of the field in my view. As good as he is, Ricciardo is being left behind by Max's performances.

Boromedic

Yeah the pace differential between Max and Danny Ric was huge ditto between Lewis and Bottas. He is definitely going to be great with more showings like that.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

simonk said:

Don't think Helmut Marko is a particularly nice guy TBH.

He's not paid to be ... racing's a tough sport. Had McLaren had him they wouldn't have been languishing on the fringes for so long.

Marko is in charge of drivers, he doesn't design cars. Since the evil cyclops has been in charge of RB, Mclaren have had Raikkonen, Montoya, Alonso, Hamilton, Button and Van Dorne in their cars and while Alonso brings 6 tenths in his pocket, Max hasn't got 25 tenths in his. Mclaren will be crap again next year but Dr Evil with his meat grinder can't help them.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

simonk said:

Don't think Helmut Marko is a particularly nice guy TBH.

He's not paid to be ... racing's a tough sport. Had McLaren had him they wouldn't have been languishing on the fringes for so long.

Marko is in charge of drivers, he doesn't design cars. Since the evil cyclops has been in charge of RB, Mclaren have had Raikkonen, Montoya, Alonso, Hamilton, Button and Van Dorne in their cars and while Alonso brings 6 tenths in his pocket, Max hasn't got 25 tenths in his. Mclaren will be crap again next year but Dr Evil with his meat grinder can't help them.

Marko is an adviser to RB. He is a personal friend of the teams owner and he does far more than run the young driver programme. Horner is scared stiff of the guy. Cast your mind back and he was vocal about the poor performance of Renault. He approached other engine manufacturers and has stated that he wants to make Mercedes pay for turning down Red Bull. He wants RB to make their own engine and has had conversations with Aston Martin. I'd say he's not a guy you cross.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

simonk said:

Don't think Helmut Marko is a particularly nice guy TBH.

He's not paid to be ... racing's a tough sport. Had McLaren had him they wouldn't have been languishing on the fringes for so long.

Marko is in charge of drivers, he doesn't design cars. Since the evil cyclops has been in charge of RB, Mclaren have had Raikkonen, Montoya, Alonso, Hamilton, Button and Van Dorne in their cars and while Alonso brings 6 tenths in his pocket, Max hasn't got 25 tenths in his. Mclaren will be crap again next year but Dr Evil with his meat grinder can't help them.

Marko is an adviser to RB. He is a personal friend of the teams owner and he does far more than run the young driver programme. Horner is scared stiff of the guy. Cast your mind back and he was vocal about the poor performance of Renault. He approached other engine manufacturers and has stated that he wants to make Mercedes pay for turning down Red Bull. He wants RB to make their own engine and has had conversations with Aston Martin. I'd say he's not a guy you cross.

He shouts his mouth off and now RBR do not have an engine for 2019, they'll get a Honda by default. Cyril Abetiboul does not answer to Marko but Marko did piss Renault off enough to buy the Enstone team so they could fuck RBR off at the first opportunity and keep a works Renault team in F1. If anything Marko is detrimental to RB.

As for approaching other engine suppliers, they all told him to fuck off too.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

As for approaching other engine suppliers, they all told him to fuck off too.

That's because Mercedes and Ferrari know that with a decent engine RB would be number one again. The Renault F1 team got fed up being embarrassed every week with Vestappen and Ricciardo way head and pissing all over the works team car. If Verstappen had a Merc engine he'd be all over the gearbox of Hamilton and probably beating him.

Going forward it looks like Brawn will ensure simpler engine regs which will bring Aston Martin/Cosworth into the frame which could shake F1 up - maybe even VW with Porsche. I can't see Honda doing much until the engine regs change.

sinbaadi

They may as well have a spec engine.  The disparity between Mercedes and Renault/Ferrari, and the even greater gulf to Honda is what makes F1, F1.  Nobody penalising the teams that do it better- you reap what you sow.

If they simplify the rules to minimise or eliminate performance deficits the only purpose of different engine brands is marketing.  Everyone lambasts Honda and isn't giving Mercedes enough plaudits because for the most part they have made it look easy.

Fretwired

sinbaadi said:

They may as well have a spec engine.  The disparity between Mercedes and Renault/Ferrari, and the even greater gulf to Honda is what makes F1, F1.  Nobody penalising the teams that do it better- you reap what you sow.

If they simplify the rules to minimise or eliminate performance deficits the only purpose of different engine brands is marketing.  Everyone lambasts Honda and isn't giving Mercedes enough plaudits because for the most part they have made it look easy.

Although think back to the new regs and Hamilton and Rosberg had a lot of poor reliability. The problem was so did everyone else. We were all moaning .. Honda came late to the party and were goaded by Big Ron to deliver an engine before it was ready. They couldn't catchup due to the development regulations.

stickyfiddle

We don't need a spec series, just engines that are simple enough and cheap enough that everyone who doesn't get it right the first year has a chance to catch up and overtake whoever *does* get it right in time.

The current regs haven't allowed that, and Merc (i.e. Brawn) realised that the benefit of every dollar spent before the engines were introduced and changes linked to tokens was about 5x the benefit of a dollar spent later. No-one else realised, which has left Honda (and to a lesser extent Renault) playing catch-up in a game that simply doesn't allow it. 

Ultimately the exact engines F1 uses aren't that important as long as there is some element of looking forward, preferably with 1000+ bhp in quali trim.

And F1 did need to change - back in the V10 days you had guys like BMW taking 15 engines to every race (one per car and a spare for every session). Now we have Mercedes and (usually) Ferrari running multiple races with a single engine, using less fuel than ever and STILL getting close to 1000 bhp. That's just phenomenal. We just need to take that technology maybe one step backwards, keep the turbos and ICE tech and probably the reasonably-well-understood MGU-K but bin the MGU-H that only Mercedes have got right.

Brawn will get this right. I'm absolutely certain. The engine guys will moan - at least some of them, but Brawn is the #1 guy who will be able to look at any set of draft regs and spot the loopholes and options the teams will be looking for to "optimise" their interpretations. 

chillidoggy

/\  Well said, Sir.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

We don't need a spec series, just engines that are simple enough and cheap enough that everyone who doesn't get it right the first year has a chance to catch up and overtake whoever *does* get it right in time.

The current regs haven't allowed that, and Merc (i.e. Brawn) realised that the benefit of every dollar spent before the engines were introduced and changes linked to tokens was about 5x the benefit of a dollar spent later. No-one else realised, which has left Honda (and to a lesser extent Renault) playing catch-up in a game that simply doesn't allow it. 

Ultimately the exact engines F1 uses aren't that important as long as there is some element of looking forward, preferably with 1000+ bhp in quality trim.

And F1 did need to change - back in the V10 days you had guys like BMW taking 15 engines to every race (one per car and a spare for every session). Now we have Mercedes and (usually) Ferrari running multiple races with a single engine, using less fuel than ever and STILL getting close to 1000 bhp. That's just phenomenal. We just need to take that technology maybe one step backwards, keep the turbos and ICE tech and probably the reasonably-well-understood MGU-K but bin the MGU-H that only Mercedes have got right.

Brawn will get this right. I'm absolutely certain. The engine guys will moan - at least some of them, but Brawn is the #1 guy who will be able to look at any set of draft regs and spot the loopholes and options the teams will be looking for to "optimise" their interpretations. 

I don't see the point to be honest. The electric formula will grab the newer tech. F1 needs to go back to its roots and that's back to big engines that make lots of noise and generate speed. A big turn off for many is the engine tech and the tyre saving and fuel saving and turning the engines down to conserve them. The tech will need to simple or you won't have any new engine suppliers. They'll look at Honda and say we can't do it.

stickyfiddle

FWIW I'd have no issue with a two-engine system, where you have the option of ditching the hybrid in return for an extra 200cc or however much they reckon would make an even playing field. But everyone and his dog already knows how to do turbos and most manufacturers have a good handle on hybrid tech these days, especially Porsche (between the 919 and LMP1 programme), who seem to be the major guys Liberty are targeting.

Clearly they need to decide how F1 should be marketed, whether based on tech advancement (as it always has been) or just the glamour and noise and speed. I don't know what the answer is, but to go back to vanilla V12/10/8s would seem a massive step backwards IMO. 

chillidoggy

There's no way they'll return to those old engines, because the technology developed gets filtered into the road cars. As sad as I am to say that, because I'd like nothing more.

Bernie made an interesting statement as Liberty was booting him out: He said he'd always sold F1 as champagne and caviar, whereas the new owners were more burger and chips. I think in the current world climate and given the astonishingly high fees (Silverstone?), it's likely to edge more to the latter, but hopefully the fans won't all be driving pickup trucks anytime soon, y'all.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

There's no way they'll return to those old engines, because the technology developed gets filtered into the road cars. As sad as I am to say that, because I'd like nothing more.

Bernie made an interesting statement as Liberty was booting him out: He said he'd always sold F1 as champagne and caviar, whereas the new owners were more burger and chips. I think in the current world climate and given the astonishingly high fees (Silverstone?), it's likely to edge more to the latter, but hopefully the fans won't all be driving pickup trucks anytime soon, y'all.

Road cars are going electric. F1 won't.

Boromedic

Back on to one of my preferred topics, predictions for the US GP? A lot of pundits saying its a Ferrari circuit partly due to the track temps and the finicky nature of the Merc. I love the COTA and I reckon this has Merc win written all over it. So I'm going:

Hamilton
Vettel
Bottas

No title just yet Lewis....

chillidoggy

Hamster
Bottas
Vettel

stickyfiddle

In an unsurprising move, Alonso has finally re-signed with Mclaren

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41684310

chillidoggy

stickyfiddle said:

In an unsurprising move, Alonso has finally re-signed with Mclaren

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41684310

He didn't really have any other options, did he? I think it was either that, or retire.

And anyone heard what's happening with Kubica?

Boromedic

He has tested twice I believe, Williams haven't commented on the results but, Paul Di Resta has been in the press this week so I wonder if they've had the same doubts as Renault did.