The F1 thread

chillidoggy

Albon will soon be history, you mark my words. Whatever the issue is, him, or the car, he's not performing. RB won't tolerate another Le Clerc/Vettel scenario.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Albon will soon be history, you mark my words. Whatever the issue is, him, or the car, he's not performing. RB won't tolerate another Le Clerc/Vettel scenario.

I agree hence I said we won't have to wait to see what the Hulk can do .. I've read he's the guy favoured by Horner.

Fretwired

Interesting interview with Todt:

“The fuel manufacturers have also threatened us that they will only continue if there is more competition. Much more important is that they invest their money in the development of emission-free fuels. In the end, all that counts for me is the right arguments, not any threats.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/jean-todt-red-bull-u-turn-engines/

fretmeister

darcym said:

this years drivers market has been interested.

It's highlighted the financial pressure both covid/non-covid related, Williams selling up, HaaS needing pay drivers (Gene must be losing interest) Sponsorship still being a struggle for all teams, Honda pulling out, Renault, on the fence in reality (I know they just signed Alonso for cash, but they don't seem committed even as an engine supplier, not having the resources to want to supply other teams.

it's seen some lifelines for some drivers like Bottas who's clearly just not got the final 10th's needed to be at the top of the pile in the top tier (that's cool - it's just reality) Totto as his personal manager must be quite a tricky situation.

Giovanazzi - I don't get the Ferrari interest in him, apart from being Italian, he never set the world alight, even in the junior formula, drivers he's competing against and waiting in the wings are just better than him, nothing more to it.

Grosjean has not had the 'metal' for F1 even in his Renault days, quick, but is missing the strength doesn't take anything away from his one lap pace, but he's just not strong enough to complete in F1

Magnussun - quick driver, super in the lower series, but his rep can't be helping, dropped by Mclaren, dropped by Renault, dropped by Haas (ok - money plays a part) but why are teams dropping him, he also can't use the rational that he's swapping teams so never settles in, he's had a fair go at HaaS and for whatever reason hasn't built the team around him so is pace enough ? is he worthy of a drive in another team (I don't know, I'm on the fence with him).

Albon - he's not cutting it at Redbull, again lower series quick and people rate him, but is it the Grosjean situation where he's just not got enough outside of the car to deal with F1, I don't know what his engineering feedback and setup experience is like but Redbull top team is not a training camp, that's what Alpha Tauri is for. I suspect he'll get a lifeline back in Alpha Tauri, but I sort of wonder, what's the point.

Ocon - shocked at how much he's struggled, Ricciardo is superb, no doubt, but he's just not existed someone who pushed so hard at Racing Point, has just faded at Renault.

Maybe bits that are overlooked because they are so low profile is how good Russel is doing as a driver in a bellow average car, and actually how bad LaTifi is doing, if you compare him to Russel it's easy to say Russel is beating him, but actually his pace on his own is just not good or his consistency 

Stroll.....wow, again just isn't cutting it, if his Dad didn't own a team in F1 I couldn't see how he could justify a place on the grid, he wasn't even great in the lower formula's 

Perez, go and do something else, not a bad driver at all, but surly enough, take away the Mexican backing and would he be on the grid.....I doubt it.

There is so much known talent without a drive, and so much potential in the wings, some guys are really on borrowed time.

"mettle."

Just saying.

(For some reason that triggers me as much as 'tender' hooks does).

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

So am I the only one stupid enough to have set aside a couple of hours this morning and afternoon to watch a bit of Friday Practice today, only to realise it doesn't exist this weekend?! 

Cols

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

Albon will soon be history, you mark my words. Whatever the issue is, him, or the car, he's not performing. RB won't tolerate another Le Clerc/Vettel scenario.

I agree hence I said we won't have to wait to see what the Hulk can do .. I've read he's the guy favoured by Horner.

Perez brings sponsors, but Hulkenberg is seen to be more of a team player.  It’ll be interesting to see what ends up as the more important factor to RB.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

Albon will soon be history, you mark my words. Whatever the issue is, him, or the car, he's not performing. RB won't tolerate another Le Clerc/Vettel scenario.

I agree hence I said we won't have to wait to see what the Hulk can do .. I've read he's the guy favoured by Horner.

Perez brings sponsors, but Hulkenberg is seen to be more of a team player.  It’ll be interesting to see what ends up as the more important factor to RB.

Not sure RB would want the pain of sponsors (unless it helps fund an engine). The sponsors will want something for their money. RB simply wants a fast driver who'll take orders and support Max.

stickyfiddle

Much wiz to all the above. Including @Dontgiveupyourdayjob - you’re not the only one...

Albon is toast. I still believe he’s a great driver and that the car and the management atmosphere at RB is to blame. The car is twitchy (Newey has always built flighty cars that are demon quick but only if you can adjust your style to fit the car), Marko and Horner are shit leaders who have created a pretty toxic atmosphere, and frankly expecting anyone to keep up with a generational talent like Verstappen in their 1st or 2nd season is just daft. 

I would favour Hulkenberg because he doesn’t have Perez’s history of wheelbanging with teammates. They don’t need Carlos Slim’s cash. 

I hope Albon ends up back at AT and shows us how good he really can be as Gasly has this year. Then they can both stick 2 fingers up to management and fuck off to better teams

Cols

Would anyone care to guess what Gasly’s done to forever rule him out of a return to RB?

I’m guessing he’s pissed Newey off by going on too much about why the car design only works for Max and what should be done to fix it, and Newey has eventually gone to Mateschitz and said “There’s only room for one Technical Director in Red Bull, will it be me or Pierre?”

boogieman

Cols said:

Next year the balance will be even more skewed with the changes at Haas.  Magnussen and Grosjean didn’t bring any money to the party, and that’s why they’re out.  

Grosjean is also a liability, with only a modicum of talent. I’m surprised Haas even gave him a drive this season. 

darcym

Cols said:

Would anyone care to guess what Gasly’s done to forever rule him out of a return to RB?

I’m guessing he’s pissed Newey off by going on too much about why the car design only works for Max and what should be done to fix it, and Newey has eventually gone to Mateschitz and said “There’s only room for one Technical Director in Red Bull, will it be me or Pierre?”

I don't know for sure, but I believe his behaviour within the team when struggling was not good, lots of moaning/tantrums/blame etc, and I think it's more as a person it's not worth bringing him back rather than his pace, I'm sure he's matured as part of it, but I get the impression Red Bull want to drivers who behave like a professional in the car/team rather than a teenage (which is ironic considering Red Bull hire teenagers as a matter a pride into their squads).

I believe there was also a bit of French press attention to Red Bull around their perceived treatment of him, which again may just not be worth the hassle.

Cols

boogieman said:

Cols said:

Next year the balance will be even more skewed with the changes at Haas.  Magnussen and Grosjean didn’t bring any money to the party, and that’s why they’re out.  

Grosjean is also a liability, with only a modicum of talent. I’m surprised Haas even gave him a drive this season. 

Apparently he was instrumental in helping Haas  to figure out where they’d gone wrong with the 2019 car upgrades, which helped his case for keeping the seat for this year.

Next year they’ll have two rookie drivers; Williams could probably tell some tales about how well that goes in terms of car development.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Would anyone care to guess what Gasly’s done to forever rule him out of a return to RB?

I believe Gasley called Marko some choice names .. the pair fell out big time. Apparently Hamilton told Red Bull to bin Gasley and replace him with Albon.

chillidoggy

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

So am I the only one stupid enough to have set aside a couple of hours this morning and afternoon to watch a bit of Friday Practice today, only to realise it doesn't exist this weekend?! 

Funny you should say that, but..............................

chillidoggy

stickyfiddle said:

Much wiz to all the above. Including @Dontgiveupyourdayjob - you’re not the only one...

Albon is toast. I still believe he’s a great driver and that the car and the management atmosphere at RB is to blame. The car is twitchy (Newey has always built flighty cars that are demon quick but only if you can adjust your style to fit the car), Marko and Horner are shit leaders who have created a pretty toxic atmosphere, and frankly expecting anyone to keep up with a generational talent like Verstappen in their 1st or 2nd season is just daft. 

As much as I dislike Horner (I tend to bristle every time he pops up on the screen), I'm not convinced he's a shit leader. Mainly because shit leaders don't tend to last too long, although I always thought Martin Whitmarsh was a really nice guy, but a shit manager and he lasted quite a while. I do think you need to be a bit of a hard bastard in F1 management.

Cols

Russell and Latifi both confirmed to stay at Williams next year.  Perez’s options are narrowing.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Russell and Latifi both confirmed to stay at Williams next year.  Perez’s options are narrowing.

I wonder if Wolff sweetened the engine deal .... ;-)

So long as Russell performs next year I expect him to be promoted to partner Hamilton in 2022.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Great news to hear Russell will have a seat next year. Thoroughly deserved. Latifi? He's a bit like Giovinazzi at Alfa, you forget he even exists unless you see him retiring/crashing.

Anyone miss the days of really, hideously shit second drivers at lesser teams? I'll never forget someone like Taki Inoue, but someone like a Giovinazzi or Marcus Ericsson are good enough to not embarrass themselves, but never good enough to pull off shock result or earn a drive at a better team. 

stickyfiddle

Yeah. Honestly I miss the days of worse reliability and backmarkers nicking a point from a lucky race. But you can put that particular genie back in the bottle. 

I would like to see more teams again though. At least 24 cars would be nice 

chillidoggy

So, are we expecting any surprises later today? Maybe an RP up to 3rd?