The F1 thread

Boromedic

markr76 said:

Boromedic said:

Not seen the race, just watching quali. The Red Bull is planted, more than the other cars but clearly doesn't have the raw pace. The Ferrari is rapid and interestingly not a stable as the RB, but must have speed to burn as they can't get near it, despite it having serious high frequency porpoising that's nearly as bad as Mercedes. If Ferrari eliminate that they'll walk this season (I hope they do), Mercedes are right to say that their issues aren't just porpoising having seen the Ferrari pretty much doing the same and yet still fast. 

Mercs porpoising seems more low frequency than the Ferrari, the car seems unstable through the corners too. Lots of work to do, I've seen the result today so race pace is still best of the rest which is good for Merc. Can't see them recovering this, Lewis's record of a win in every season could be on the line. 

One of the big problems that the Redbull has, the same as we have (amongst other problems) is the cars are over the weight limit by a good amount in F1 terms. The Ferrari is pretty close to the weight limit. Maybe a couple of kg over. But that can be worth 0.4-0.5 sec in lap time. 

So one way to look at it is Ferrari can’t gain much advantage here whereas Redbull can gain by putting the car on a diet. The same as us. But from the other point of view, Ferrari don’t have to waste too many resources lightening the car, they can just concentrate on improving what they already have.

There might come a time when Ferrari do need to worry about the bouncing, even though this doesn’t seem to bother them at the minute. But this isn’t a normal season. There’s so much potential for upgrades this year with the new regs. It might only take 1 decent upgrade from any of the teams and it puts them ahead. 

Interesting insight! Thanks Mark

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

markr76 said:

One of the big problems that the Redbull has, the same as we have (amongst other problems) is the cars are over the weight limit by a good amount in F1 terms. The Ferrari is pretty close to the weight limit. Maybe a couple of kg over. But that can be worth 0.4-0.5 sec in lap time. 

So one way to look at it is Ferrari can’t gain much advantage here whereas Redbull can gain by putting the car on a diet. The same as us. But from the other point of view, Ferrari don’t have to waste too many resources lightening the car, they can just concentrate on improving what they already have.

There might come a time when Ferrari do need to worry about the bouncing, even though this doesn’t seem to bother them at the minute. But this isn’t a normal season. There’s so much potential for upgrades this year with the new regs. It might only take 1 decent upgrade from any of the teams and it puts them ahead. 

Interesting stuff! Is that what we think has gone on with the Alpine and the McLaren? They both looked absolutely nowhere in testing and at the first race, but now seem to have jumped right up to be nipping at the Merc's heels.

markr76

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

markr76 said:

One of the big problems that the Redbull has, the same as we have (amongst other problems) is the cars are over the weight limit by a good amount in F1 terms. The Ferrari is pretty close to the weight limit. Maybe a couple of kg over. But that can be worth 0.4-0.5 sec in lap time. 

So one way to look at it is Ferrari can’t gain much advantage here whereas Redbull can gain by putting the car on a diet. The same as us. But from the other point of view, Ferrari don’t have to waste too many resources lightening the car, they can just concentrate on improving what they already have.

There might come a time when Ferrari do need to worry about the bouncing, even though this doesn’t seem to bother them at the minute. But this isn’t a normal season. There’s so much potential for upgrades this year with the new regs. It might only take 1 decent upgrade from any of the teams and it puts them ahead. 

Interesting stuff! Is that what we think has gone on with the Alpine and the McLaren? They both looked absolutely nowhere in testing and at the first race, but now seem to have jumped right up to be nipping at the Merc's heels.

I’m not sure really. We thought the McLaren was looking good. But they seemed to fall away. But I’ve heard all the teams bar the Ferrari and Alfa were over weight. So we might be seeing the effects of the teams loosing weight. Also just getting a better understanding of their cars. 

I think we’ll see different performances from track to track also. 

stickyfiddle

Lando said in post-race that they haven't really changed anything except the brake ducts and they think it's just a better track for them. But who knows. With all these differing philosophies I can imagine there might be loads of swings where teams bring the exact same car but the order could change quite easily because no-one fully understands these cars yet - that's really exciting. 

But the fact that Ferrari have been right on it at all 3 so far shows they're clearly in the pound seats

chillidoggy

The Mercs need to get a grip on the car performance ASAP before the RB and Ferraris get too far in the lead. When I saw the lack of side-pods on the new car I thought they'd really stolen a march on the rest of the field. But much more of the same results, and I can see Hamster quitting. Especially if Russell is ahead of him in the points.

YellowLedBetterMan

Finally got round to watching Drive to Survive. Almost forgot just how shit Mazepin was. Good fucking riddance. Was only a matter of time before his inability to drive forwards ended up causing some real harm to someone.

It's hardly like Haas are missing him. In fact, I doubt anyone is missing him.

musicegbdf

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Still some questions about Ferrari having the advantage of fuel testing.. 

Links? Ta

Google. Type " Ferrari , Shell , E10 , Fia"  there is a lot out there.
True or conspiracy,  they have certainly got ahead since E10 and Ferrari have always had a lot of influence. Will be interesting to see when a Ferrari gets pulled for testing.

RiftAmps

musicegbdf said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Still some questions about Ferrari having the advantage of fuel testing.. 

Links? Ta

Google. Type " Ferrari , Shell , E10 , Fia"  there is a lot out there.
True or conspiracy,  they have certainly got ahead since E10 and Ferrari have always had a lot of influence. Will be interesting to see when a Ferrari gets pulled for testing.

It has been already, after the race - https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2022 Australian Grand Prix - Race scrutineering.pdf

Boromedic

musicegbdf said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Still some questions about Ferrari having the advantage of fuel testing.. 

Links? Ta

Google. Type " Ferrari , Shell , E10 , Fia"  there is a lot out there.
True or conspiracy,  they have certainly got ahead since E10 and Ferrari have always had a lot of influence. Will be interesting to see when a Ferrari gets pulled for testing.

Yeah I tried Googling it and there is nothing of any substance, hence why I asked. Horner suggesting Ferrari are doing well with the new fuel is hardly a smoking gun is it. So basically it's rubbish and no team have lodged concerns. As Rift posted above, they've been scrutinised now too.

markr76

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Still some questions about Ferrari having the advantage of fuel testing.. 

Links? Ta

Google. Type " Ferrari , Shell , E10 , Fia"  there is a lot out there.
True or conspiracy,  they have certainly got ahead since E10 and Ferrari have always had a lot of influence. Will be interesting to see when a Ferrari gets pulled for testing.

Yeah I tried Googling it and there is nothing of any substance, hence why I asked. Horner suggesting Ferrari are doing well with the new fuel is hardly a smoking gun is it. So basically it's rubbish and no team have lodged concerns. As Rift posted above, they've been scrutinised now too.

I think all this comes around as Ferrari were cheating before. So everyone just presumes that they must be doing something dodge straight away. Which is a shame really. But they did put themselves in that position in the first place. I think they have just done a good job and they they’d be very silly trying anything on again. 

It happens at our place though. There’s always questions asked if we think Redbull or Ferrari are cheating. Mike’s response is that we shouldn’t think that way straight off the bat and give them done credit. They are both extremely good teams with very good people there.

Boromedic

markr76 said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Still some questions about Ferrari having the advantage of fuel testing.. 

Links? Ta

Google. Type " Ferrari , Shell , E10 , Fia"  there is a lot out there.
True or conspiracy,  they have certainly got ahead since E10 and Ferrari have always had a lot of influence. Will be interesting to see when a Ferrari gets pulled for testing.

Yeah I tried Googling it and there is nothing of any substance, hence why I asked. Horner suggesting Ferrari are doing well with the new fuel is hardly a smoking gun is it. So basically it's rubbish and no team have lodged concerns. As Rift posted above, they've been scrutinised now too.

I think all this comes around as Ferrari were cheating before. So everyone just presumes that they must be doing something dodge straight away. Which is a shame really. But they did put themselves in that position in the first place. I think they have just done a good job and they they’d be very silly trying anything on again. 

It happens at our place though. There’s always questions asked if we think Redbull or Ferrari are cheating. Mike’s response is that we shouldn’t think that way straight off the bat and give them done credit. They are both extremely good teams with very good people there.

Yep I agree Mark, and they did bring it on themselves thanks to previous shenanigans. I'm in agreement with you though, we should just congratulate them on a job well done

Congrats on your results at the weekend, I appreciate it's down to good fortune partly but you've got to work hard to be in the position to capitalise. Intriguing season ahead.

Cols

A weekend to forget for Sainz; while his team mate bagged the hat trick of pole, fastest lap and race win Carlos had an unwanted hat trick of making a pigs ear of qualifying, bodging the start and then chucking it into the gravel with an unforced error.

Unless he turns it around quickly he'll find himself in the same boat as Coulthard was in 1998; having a car capable of winning championships at your disposal, but seeing the team coalesce around your team mate because they nailed the first few races.

markr76

Boromedic said:

markr76 said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Still some questions about Ferrari having the advantage of fuel testing.. 

Links? Ta

Google. Type " Ferrari , Shell , E10 , Fia"  there is a lot out there.
True or conspiracy,  they have certainly got ahead since E10 and Ferrari have always had a lot of influence. Will be interesting to see when a Ferrari gets pulled for testing.

Yeah I tried Googling it and there is nothing of any substance, hence why I asked. Horner suggesting Ferrari are doing well with the new fuel is hardly a smoking gun is it. So basically it's rubbish and no team have lodged concerns. As Rift posted above, they've been scrutinised now too.

I think all this comes around as Ferrari were cheating before. So everyone just presumes that they must be doing something dodge straight away. Which is a shame really. But they did put themselves in that position in the first place. I think they have just done a good job and they they’d be very silly trying anything on again. 

It happens at our place though. There’s always questions asked if we think Redbull or Ferrari are cheating. Mike’s response is that we shouldn’t think that way straight off the bat and give them done credit. They are both extremely good teams with very good people there.

Yep I agree Mark, and they did bring it on themselves thanks to previous shenanigans. I'm in agreement with you though, we should just congratulate them on a job well done

Congrats on your results at the weekend, I appreciate it's down to good fortune partly but you've got to work hard to be in the position to capitalise. Intriguing season ahead.

Cheers. I think we’d gotten so used to winning that it’s taken a minute for the shock that we’re not the class of the field anymore to go away! Now we need to get this car working properly. 

From what I’ve been told it’s very hard to replicate the bouncing in the wind tunnel. Which is probably why so many teams got caught out by it. I know the teams use CFD also. But from what I’ve seen it’s not a clear cut picture you get. I’m not an aero guy, but I’d guess it’s only something you you’d maybe notice in the results if you’re looking specifically for it. That’s only a guess though as although there’s basic physics to follow with aero. Some of it appears to be a black art to me!!

TimmyO

markr76 said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Boromedic said:

musicegbdf said:

Still some questions about Ferrari having the advantage of fuel testing.. 

Links? Ta

Google. Type " Ferrari , Shell , E10 , Fia"  there is a lot out there.
True or conspiracy,  they have certainly got ahead since E10 and Ferrari have always had a lot of influence. Will be interesting to see when a Ferrari gets pulled for testing.

Yeah I tried Googling it and there is nothing of any substance, hence why I asked. Horner suggesting Ferrari are doing well with the new fuel is hardly a smoking gun is it. So basically it's rubbish and no team have lodged concerns. As Rift posted above, they've been scrutinised now too.

. 

It happens at our place though. There’s always questions asked if we think Redbull or Ferrari are cheating. Mike’s response is that we shouldn’t think that way straight off the bat and give them done credit. They are both extremely good teams with very good people there.

And that’s the right attitude - writing it off to cheating or something outside your control would be letting yourself off the hook for being able to achieve the same or better. 

musicegbdf

Fair enough and happy to see Ferrari up there. Really pleased to see Lando there as well.
Anyone other than MV.
I can't find the article , but I did read that Ferrari had been given permission by Fia to do engine development with shell of E10 and they managed to recover 20 bhp of the expected loss of 35 bhp. What I don't know is why they needed permission , and if others were allowed.
Though as mentioned maybe smoke and mirrors.

roundthebend

We caught the last half of the race which was pretty dull to be honest. Watching the highlights it seems there was a bit more action in the first half. Is that a fair assessment? If so, was it the track to blame or just early season with the cars not being completely settled meaning a lull?

fretmeister

roundthebend said:

We caught the last half of the race which was pretty dull to be honest. Watching the highlights it seems there was a bit more action in the first half. Is that a fair assessment? If so, was it the track to blame or just early season with the cars not being completely settled meaning a lull?

It's the track. It's never been an exciting one.

menamestom

Cols said:

A weekend to forget for Sainz; while his team mate bagged the hat trick of pole, fastest lap and race win Carlos had an unwanted hat trick of making a pigs ear of qualifying, bodging the start and then chucking it into the gravel with an unforced error.

I’m not sure that is accurate.  He had a decent qualifying lap discounted due to the red flag, then the car had an issue on startup and his final effort was messed up.  The car had to go out not ready.

He then had to start on hards for the race but also had to have a replacement steering wheel which was apparently set up different to what he was used to. 

The other teams on hards suffered as well.   

I think that was a bad call, not sure who made it.

You do make your own luck to some extent but his weekend was definitely more bad look than making a pigs ear of things.

markr76

roundthebend said:

We caught the last half of the race which was pretty dull to be honest. Watching the highlights it seems there was a bit more action in the first half. Is that a fair assessment? If so, was it the track to blame or just early season with the cars not being completely settled meaning a lull?

As fret said, the track has never been a particularly exciting track for overtaking. Also the teams are still getting used to these new tyres. Redbull got it very wrong with Max. If you push too hard at the start it ruins them. Then you have to nurse them until the the pit window. 

Cols

Sainz has signed for another two years at Ferrari; after a shocker of a weekend at Melbourne he’s probably quite relieved about that.

Hopefully it’s still on an equal footing with Leclerc, and not as his footstool.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferrari-extends-sainzs-f1-deal-to-the-end-of-2024/10085412/