The F1 thread

thumpingrug

Whilst I agree that it is frustrating to see Max win again - it is great to see Mercedes and Maclaren have closed that gap and are provided some real competitive racing.  I thought today's race was good.  Nice to see Lewis back on the podium 

boogieman

Decent enough race and good to see some genuine competition at the front at last. Gutted for Lando, he really should’ve won that one, but it looks like it won’t be too long now. 

What is Perez doing though? …54 seconds behind Max, in the same car. Sheesh. 

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

Just to add here I think Perez the last few races demonstrates it's definitely not Max going slower but the rest of the field closing up. Checo is a similar gap behind Max as ever before, the difference is there are now more like 6-8 cars in that gap while in the past there was usually only 1 or 2

Six tenths off Max in qualifying, at a circuit where all the other teammates were separated by the slenderest of margins.

His fastest lap in the race was on par with Verstappen, but that was more about tyre management - and Perez was running a 3 stop strategy compared to Verstappen’s two stopper.  Frankly, it’s embarrassing.  

sinbaadi

No point going round the Perez thing every time.  I think it's only going to be remarkable when he is up at the front. 

Max does seem fast, he certainly has that ability to win when there is a bit more pressure on, but Perez isn't a good benchmark either.  Who knows what any other driver would do in the RBR against Max, it's impossible to say, but I highly doubt any one of them would do any worse than Perez.  Cars can be designed to suit a specific driving style, yes.  That's a thing.  But still, I think the likes of Russell, Norris, LeClerc, Sainz would also be very disappointed if they were not faster in the RBR than they are in their current cars.

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

Just to add here I think Perez the last few races demonstrates it's definitely not Max going slower but the rest of the field closing up. Checo is a similar gap behind Max as ever before, the difference is there are now more like 6-8 cars in that gap while in the past there was usually only 1 or 2

Six tenths off Max in qualifying, at a circuit where all the other teammates were separated by the slenderest of margins.

His fastest lap in the race was on par with Verstappen, but that was more about tyre management - and Perez was running a 3 stop strategy compared to Verstappen’s two stopper.  Frankly, it’s embarrassing.  

Actually just the same as last year - he qualified 11th, 0.6 behind Max in 2023. In 2022 he was only 0.4 behind. 

Anyway, combine that with overdriving in an attempt to catch up and he’s fucked. Which is exactly what they fired Gasly and Albon for… 

Incidentally, Gasly was only 0.35 behind Max in Spanish Quali in 2019… 

Boromedic

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

fretmeister

rlw

After watching the 24 Hours last weekend, this was so dull and processional that I nearly fell alseep several times.

stickyfiddle

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

Absolutely. There are only a couple of other drivers on the grid that could have won that race in that car, based on the average between MV & Perez - Ham, Leclerc, Norris. MAYBE Alonso though honestly his car has been so up & down it’s hard to tell how much speed he really still has

markr76

stickyfiddle said:

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

Absolutely. There are only a couple of other drivers on the grid that could have won that race in that car, based on the average between MV & Perez - Ham, Leclerc, Norris. MAYBE Alonso though honestly his car has been so up & down it’s hard to tell how much speed he really still has

I do think Max makes a big difference. I think he is definitely the class of the field. Just like Hamilton before him. 

I think that redbull is quite a tricky car to drive. It’s quite edgy. Which seems to suit Max’s style. The car would have been designed with his feedback in mind. Plus they’d listen to Max’s input more than Checo as he’s no1. 

Although they are drivers and not car designers. Drivers can only report what they are feeling to the designers. They probably don’t understand the mechanisms that create it. But that’s the designers job. Very often it’s a good idea to listen to the drivers though as the more confident they are in the car. The faster they’ll go. 

Sone drivers do suit certain characteristics of a car though. Look at Vettel back when he won his championships. That redbull had a blown diffuser, which created masses of rear grip. He loved having the stable rear end. As soon as the blown diffuser was outlawed. He really struggled. The opposite of Michael Schumacher. He loved strong front grip. If the back of the car was a little loose, he could cope with that, as long as the front stuck where he wanted it. 

sinbaadi

All speculation really underlining how nobody can really measure drivers against each other unless they're in the same car (and even then it's a little bit questionable if one driver is dictating the design direction).

menamestom

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

I think that's probably correct, but I think it's very much circuit dependant.  I think the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya was one where RB could maintain a slight advantage and probably had the faster car, just about.  But then again MV still won at the preceding races where they had no advantage, if anything a slight disadvantage with the struggles they have with slower corners and bumps.

I think with these things just having the knowledge of how to win consistantly as a team keeps you on top when the margins are so slim.   I think put another way, when Maclaren string a few victories together and the pressure is really on, RB will have to deal with something they havn't for a long time - some real pressure which can start to test the winning mentality and psychology.  The MV effect can only go so far.  Hopefully Maclaren improve just enough to break through that barrier so everything opens up. 

Cols

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

I really would have expected Red Bull to be back to business as usual in Spain.  The circuit doesn’t possess any of the characteristics that caused problems for them in the past few races.  The fact that Verstappen didn’t waltz off into the distance and Perez spent his afternoon duelling with the midfield drivers bodes well for the next few races.

markr76

Cols said:

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

I really would have expected Red Bull to be back to business as usual in Spain.  The circuit doesn’t possess any of the characteristics that caused problems for them in the past few races.  The fact that Verstappen didn’t waltz off into the distance and Perez spent his afternoon duelling with the midfield drivers bodes well for the next few races.

The talk on the pit lane is that their latest update hasn’t worked as planned and unsettled the car. Horner denied this theory, but he would. 

TimmyO

markr76 said:

Cols said:

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

I really would have expected Red Bull to be back to business as usual in Spain.  The circuit doesn’t possess any of the characteristics that caused problems for them in the past few races.  The fact that Verstappen didn’t waltz off into the distance and Perez spent his afternoon duelling with the midfield drivers bodes well for the next few races.

The talk on the pit lane is that their latest update hasn’t worked as planned and unsettled the car. Horner denied this theory, but he would. 

Be interesting to see the incremental field-closes-gap-to-RB between the time that Horner said that Newey's involvement wasn't that important and now... :-) 

Cols

markr76 said:

Cols said:

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

I really would have expected Red Bull to be back to business as usual in Spain.  The circuit doesn’t possess any of the characteristics that caused problems for them in the past few races.  The fact that Verstappen didn’t waltz off into the distance and Perez spent his afternoon duelling with the midfield drivers bodes well for the next few races.

The talk on the pit lane is that their latest update hasn’t worked as planned and unsettled the car. Horner denied this theory, but he would. 

There may be something in that.  The RB junior team also brought elaborate updates to Barcelona (new rear wing, updated sidepods and engine covers and a re-profiled floor) which sent them straight to Q1 knockout.  

Brio

Adrian will sort it.
Oh, wait...

sinbaadi

NASCAR cup series used wet weather tyres for part of an oval race when the race came, this weekend.  Pretty cool stuff.  They're doing some interesting things with NASCAR lately. 

Highlights on Motorsports on NBC YouTube channel are the way to go.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Alpine making a late bid to lure Sainz in to replace Ocon?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alpine-in-late-bid-for-sainz-as-f1-talks-ramp-up/10626857/

A month ago he probably wouldn't have considered it with Williams or Sauber on the table, but Alpine do seem to have got their shit together recently.

Boromedic

Cols said:

Boromedic said:

There's a growing feeling among the pundits and ex drivers that the RB is no longer the fastest car, and the difference is all down to Max, certainly can see why they think that. The gap seems consistent though.

I really would have expected Red Bull to be back to business as usual in Spain.  The circuit doesn’t possess any of the characteristics that caused problems for them in the past few races.  The fact that Verstappen didn’t waltz off into the distance and Perez spent his afternoon duelling with the midfield drivers bodes well for the next few races.

It does indeed, I reckon if Norris hadn't been stuck behind Russell it would've been a McLaren win. The McLaren uses it's tyres better in the second part of its stint and the offset at the beginning isn't enough for Max to pull far enough ahead to make it work.