The F1 thread

sinbaadi

Boromedic said:

I dunno, put Fernando, Lewis, Charles or Lando in that second car, they could beat Max, I think that would be a decent bet. Max is the same level as those guys imo, and they would show that in equal machinery.

That's the very thing about comparing drivers when they are in different machinery.  It's so subjective, but always far easier to claim that someone in a winning team is one of the greats than someone in the midfield.

I hope that McLaren and Ferrari can put their drivers in a winning situation, but obviously if that happens in any sustained way then Max not winning anymore will be because of performance deficit, not because other drivers are better.

I would always argue for less technical development freedom, by the way, in case that isn't clear.  The typical F1 fan has no idea what what they want means, and that close racing and technical innovation are directly opposed to one another.  There's this fantasy world where those things all balance out but the underdog team owner signs the new Fangio and the new Gordon Murray and with this new wing design they start taking the fight to the big boys.  All very Hollywood.  Even the Brawn story is one of performance disparity that didn't quite swing far enough back the other way in time for Seb to take the first title, once they all started copying the optimal design exploits.

stickyfiddle

sinbaadi said:

Boromedic said:

I dunno, put Fernando, Lewis, Charles or Lando in that second car, they could beat Max, I think that would be a decent bet. Max is the same level as those guys imo, and they would show that in equal machinery.

That's the very thing about comparing drivers when they are in different machinery.  It's so subjective, but always far easier to claim that someone in a winning team is one of the greats than someone in the midfield.

I hope that McLaren and Ferrari can put their drivers in a winning situation, but obviously if that happens in any sustained way then Max not winning anymore will be because of performance deficit, not because other drivers are better.

I would always argue for less technical development freedom, by the way, in case that isn't clear.  The typical F1 fan has no idea what what they want means, and that close racing and technical innovation are directly opposed to one another.  There's this fantasy world where those things all balance out but the underdog team owner signs the new Fangio and the new Gordon Murray and with this new wing design they start taking the fight to the big boys.  All very Hollywood.  Even the Brawn story is one of performance disparity that didn't quite swing far enough back the other way in time for Seb to take the first title, once they all started copying the optimal design exploits.

100% all of this. 

And Brawn is a bizarre underdog story, because it was actually the result of a multi-year Honda investment that effectively got lucky when Honda pulled the plug because it meant they could shoehorn in the better Mercedes engine.  I can't imagine it ever being repeated

Emiel

The 2026 rule changes have the potential to stir things up quite a bit. We'll see some teams/engine manufacturers come up with a better package than others. It's usually the works teams that get things right, and it's pretty exciting there will be 2 more in '26 with Aston Martin-Honda and Sauber-Audi, perhaps even 3 with Andretti-Cadillac. 

stickyfiddle

Emiel said:

The 2026 rule changes have the potential to stir things up quite a bit. We'll see some teams/engine manufacturers come up with a better package than others. It's usually the works teams that get things right, and it's pretty exciting there will be 2 more in '26 with Aston Martin-Honda and Sauber-Audi, perhaps even 3 with Andretti-Cadillac. 

Ferrari 2009 and the entire history of Toyota F1 2002-2009 would beg to differ! 

That said I have far more faith in the AM and Audi guys than I do in modern-day Ferrari

sinbaadi

Big rule changes shake things up, but the likelihood that you'll have 2 or more teams on a truly level footing in year 1 of any period or "era" is far lower than it is for year 5 or 6 of that era.

Roll the dice and hope that at least the team with the edge is different from the one that has been winning for most of the previous era.

The fact that even after 5 or 6 years you can still have a team clearly out in front is testament to how deep into the technical regulations it is possible to go.  But this can be also be attributed to budget limitations and caps that can prevent teams from making radical redesigns which would be like the rolling the dice again (and might be what it takes to find that edge).

I like it when a new set of regulations comes along because car design and aerodynamics are of interest to me, but I have zero expectation that there will be a close fight between two teams at the front in the first season.

fretmeister

Marko at it again.

This time claiming that Checo's fluctuations in form are because he's South American and not Dutch or German like Max / Seb.

Helmut Marko issues statement on ‘offensive’ Sergio Perez remark (msn.com)

Racist old fool.

stickyfiddle

I mean.. it's hardly news that Marko is a dickhead, is it?

Cols

He’s apologised now.

Evidently someone from Red Bull HQ explained to him using small words that Latin America is an important market for their fizzy drinks, and it’s unwise to alienate them.

Not to mention the fact that South America has quite a few Grand Prix wins and World Championships under its belt, which does make Helmut look a bit thick.

euan

Looking forward to Red Bull going all day of the living dead for Helmut at the Mexico GP

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

He’s apologised now.

Evidently someone from Red Bull HQ explained to him using small words that Latin America is an important market for their fizzy drinks, and it’s unwise to alienate them.

Not to mention the fact that South America has quite a few Grand Prix wins and World Championships under its belt, which does make Helmut look a bit thick.

Not to mentioned that Mexico isn’t in South America…! 

stickyfiddle

Love this

DannyRic and Liam in the TR (or BossBull or whatever) next year? 

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

DannyRic and Liam in the TR (or BossBull or whatever) next year? 

Could be.  

Rumours are that the unfortunate Tsunoda - who’s done a very creditable job this year - is going to be thrown into Mario’s Meat Grinder to make way for the impressive Lawson, with DR sitting in a hopeful holding pattern at The Junior Team while waiting for Perez’s contract to spin out.

Or it could be that Perez gets offered a demotion to The Junior Team for 2024, proudly declines and DR gets an early promotion…

stickyfiddle

Crikey Mclaren aren't fucking about with the new sidepods

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

DannyRic and Liam in the TR (or BossBull or whatever) next year? 

Could be.  

Rumours are that the unfortunate Tsunoda - who’s done a very creditable job this year - is going to be thrown into Mario’s Meat Grinder to make way for the impressive Lawson, with DR sitting in a hopeful holding pattern at The Junior Team while waiting for Perez’s contract to spin out.

Or it could be that Perez gets offered a demotion to The Junior Team for 2024, proudly declines and DR gets an early promotion…

Yeah, I've seen similar suggestions. Assuming Lawson does well this weekend (and next if DR isn't back) then he & DR stay within RB next year. Yuki could maybe move into the Albon/DR-style 3rd driver thing while waiting for Honda to put him into Aston Martin. 

But I gotta say I can't imagine anything less exciting than Stroll/Tsunoda as a driver lineup, so I hope that doesn't happen! 

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

But I gotta say I can't imagine anything less exciting than Stroll/Tsunoda as a driver lineup, so I hope that doesn't happen! 

It’s a growing problem for Aston Martin.  

Stroll’s not a bad driver, but he’s not a great driver either.  That was okay when they were just pottering around in the midfield scraping the odd point, but now they’ve got a serious car which can fight at the front it’s costing them positions and money in the constructor’s championship.

Tsunoda’s also very capable, and he’s done well this year by easily seeing off De Vries and not getting pasted by DR.  But he’s not shown much that marks him out as a really top drawer driver.  

Come 2026, the team could be forced to have two good-but-not-great drivers for personal and political reasons rather than outright performance.

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

But I gotta say I can't imagine anything less exciting than Stroll/Tsunoda as a driver lineup, so I hope that doesn't happen! 

It’s a growing problem for Aston Martin.  

Stroll’s not a bad driver, but he’s not a great driver either.  That was okay when they were just pottering around in the midfield scraping the odd point, but now they’ve got a serious car which can fight at the front it’s costing them positions and money in the constructor’s championship.

Tsunoda’s also very capable, and he’s done well this year by easily seeing off De Vries and not getting pasted by DR.  But he’s not shown much that marks him out as a really top drawer driver.  

Come 2026, the team could be forced to have two good-but-not-great drivers for personal and political reasons rather than outright performance.

Yeah. Thing with Yuki is that RB didn't want him over Gasly. And didn't really want Gasly either. 

How old is Lance? 28? Could that given him an out in a sort of "I'm bored and I want to go and race elsewhere before I'm too old" vibe. 

EDIT: No he's 24. Bloody hell! 

Cols

There’s dodgy/unsubstantiated rumours that Stroll might retire from F1 early to seek fortune and glory in the world of professional tennis.

TimmyO

Cols said:

There’s dodgy/unsubstantiated rumours that Stroll might retire from F1 early to seek fortune and glory in the world of professional tennis.

Is his Dad going to buy Wimbledon? Or some Umpires? 

Cols

TimmyO said:

Cols said:

There’s dodgy/unsubstantiated rumours that Stroll might retire from F1 early to seek fortune and glory in the world of professional tennis.

Is his Dad going to buy Wimbledon? Or some Umpires? 

Maybe a high-tech self-targeting tennis racquet.

Cols

Joking aside, isn’t Lawrence Stroll the most awesome dad ever?  

Most kids are lucky to get a Scalextric set, young Lance gets his own F1 team and a couple of world champions to play with.