Mr Bates Vs The Post Office

TTony

The KCs today are poodles really.  They'll get a few smiles from their clients (postmasters) with some easy shots, but Beer was the attack dog and did all the damage required.

Vennells seems a lot more relaxed today - she knows that the worst is over.

randella

DefaultM said:

They’ve just been playing bits on radio 2 and saying with the amount of crying she’s done, do people feel sorry for her now?
Whats to feel sorry for? She's probably been practicing it in front of a mirror for weeks. People have had their lives taken away over something they didn’t do at a bullshit job they probably hated going to. 

With you there. I don't feel in the slightest bit sorry for her. She's undoubtedly intelligent and I refuse to believe she's not playing us all.

That weird calm manner juxtaposed with the outbursts of tears. There's something about her that I find deeply unsettling and I can't quite put my finger on it.

crosstownvamp

randella said:

That weird calm manner juxtaposed with the outbursts of tears. There's something about her that I find deeply unsettling and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Yes that's it, very odd. Like a fussy school ma'm - yet she was clearly doing fine in a pit of vipers.

 She's certainly not like any CEO or MD I've encountered male or female, but then public sector is another planet.

Offset

Gassage said:

Punctilious.

What an outstanding word.

There have been several choice words and phrases scattered about by m'learned friends.  I also enjoy the way the likes of Beer and Henry frame their leading questions as accusations/statements of fact, ie "You were a useless, incompetent liar during your time at POL, weren't you?"

Offset

TTony said:

I can't conceive of an appropriate punishment.

That's a very good point.  Neither can I.  Nor am I sure what, if anything, she could be charged with.

I'm sure the lawyers of some SPMs will be gleefully rubbing their hands at the thought of bringing private prosections for false imprisonment etc against POL or even some of its' former execs.  I bet you couldn't get a fag paper between the fragrant Paula's arse-cheeks these days.

BillDL

Offset said:

.....  I bet you couldn't get a fag paper between the fragrant Paula's arse-cheeks these days.

I really don't know how to respond to that excellent description

Offset

BillDL said:

Offset said:

.....  I bet you couldn't get a fag paper between the fragrant Paula's arse-cheeks these days.

I really don't know how to respond to that excellent description

I wouldn't dwell on it for too long Bill :-)

BillDL

Swan, Zig-Zag or Rizla?  I was just about to go and buy some to measure with a micrometer and test your theory on myself while it was fresh on my mind.

Offset

BillDL said:

Swan, Zig-Zag or Rizla?  I was just about to go and buy some to measure with a micrometer and test your theory on myself while it was fresh on my mind.

I always think in terms of Rizlas for some reason :-)

GoFish

Litterick said:

She might have been the Bishop of London, if it weren't for that pesky Private Eye.

Indeed. Highy recommended abd supported by the "former oil man" who is in charge. I guess he must have been duped...

TTony said:

The only thing she seems any good at is remembering what to forget.
...

Isn't that totally disurbing given her former role, her current role, and the likely consequences of this hearing for her, from whence she will scuttle back out of the light of so-called public life?

Offset

GoFish said:

TTony said:

The only thing she seems any good at is remembering what to forget.
...

Isn't that totally disurbing given her former role, her current role, and the likely consequences of this hearing for her, from whence she will scuttle back out of the light of so-called public life?

Yep.  With £400k of taxpayer's wedge nestling in her bank account after leaving POL.  A nice reward for failure eh?

I wish I'd fucked up more in my professional career.

Benm39

Hopefully there will be prosecutions following the inquiry.  Vennells should be going to prison for a sizeable stretch given her culpability in the deaths and misery of others. 

Offset

Benm39 said:

Hopefully there will be prosecutions following the inquiry.  Vennells should be going to prison for a sizeable stretch given her culpability in the deaths and misery of others. 

I'm not sure about that, even though there needs to be some tangible comeback for her.  As I said earlier I'm not sure what she'd be charged with and as others have said, people in positions of privilege and power in this country tend not to serve time.

Makes me want to puke.

Benm39

We should make a fresh start and begin by banging up corporate crooks...

Offset

Great sentiment Ben but I won't be holding my breath :-(

TimmyO

The impression I get in all this (and the infected blood scandal cover up) is that senior folk in large organisations seem to genuinely believe that their greater aim is to protect the organisation whatever the situation. Then years later the clearly far more reasonable expectations of people who aren’t very highly paid executives start to hit home, and the mental fog clears and  they know objectively what they should have been doing all along and a kind of shell shock sets in. 

I don’t know what can actually be done though - can a judge or someone take all that “I don’t remember” guff and just say ‘screw you, I don’t believe you’ and send them to jail for conspiring to criminalise people? 

Sporky

Could it be classed as negligence?

There should, I feel, be comeback against the sad old  "I don't remember" line from people taking huge salaries while allowing inexcusable shit to happen on their watch. 

Jetsam1

Are not these high boardroom salaries and bonuses supposed to be because they take the responsibility for the BIG CALLS?

If there are prosecutions being run by your own company with serious budgets how could you be unaware as this would surely have had to have been run up multiple routes of approvals considering the risks?

In a fair world after this POL shambles there really should be people doing time over this and not just a few expendable wage monkeys. This has been covered in Private Eye for years and years and is a serious case of corporate criminality shurely? Knowingly conspiring to pervert the course of justice and force suicides and convictions with many people losing everything.

Just imagine if the Horizon errors had been internally accepted and Fujitsu and the PO had worked to fix them and sort the problem out in the first instance like sensible professional people? Makes me wonder about the general capability of so many of those who get into these "leadership" positions as Vennels is not unusual.

Edit: Oh and Reverend? Usual organised religion hypocrisy then.

Benm39

Offset said:

Great sentiment Ben but I won't be holding my breath :-(

Oh I'm not expecting such... albeit if a new Prime Minister wanted to create a great first impression  announcing prosecutions would be good... if only there was someone with knowledge of the crown prosecution service... 

TTony

Sporky said:

There should, I feel, be comeback against the sad old  "I don't remember" line from people taking huge salaries while allowing inexcusable shit to happen on their watch. 

Agreed.

"I don't remember" is the Executive equivalent of "no comment".

TimmyO said:

 senior folk in large organisations seem to genuinely believe that their greater aim is to protect the organisation whatever the situation.

It's called "the hand that feeds ...".  They're not really protecting "the organisation" out of any sense of duty to anything other than the source of their income.

TimmyO said:

and the mental fog clears and  they know objectively what they should have been doing all along and a kind of shell shock sets in. 

There was and is no mental fog.  She knew perfectly well what was going on throughout the period, why it was being done, and who was doing it.  The only shock is that they - finally - got called to account.  The chair knows that she's guilty as f*ck, doubtless his report will have fairly clear conclusion to that effect.

The bottom line though is whether any meaningful penalties can be applied to her (et al), commensurate with the damage that they did.