Mr Bates Vs The Post Office

VimFuego

Kittyfrisk said:

VimFuego said:

theatreanchor said:

Offset said:

Well Vennells has just said she was handing back her CBE with immediate effect.  Not a minute too soon frankly.

Good. Amazed, and very impressed, by the effect this programme has had. 

it does show the power of art, and why it is important in any civil society. 

No worries, the Government have that covered too...
https://educationbusinessuk.net/features/decline-drama-and-arts-schools
https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2012/oct/30/defence-school-drama-arts-curriculum-ebacc
https://www.thestage.co.uk/news/drama-teaching-in-schools-in-crisis-experts-warn

well, it's no secret that totalitarian regimes throughout history have targeted artists etc. 

Kittyfrisk

^ Should add 'utterly incompetent' to totalitarian...

tone1

I’m halfway through watching it….I can’t imagine what the poor families have gone through. 

Zapple

DrCornelius said:

Supportact said:

Haven't watched it yet but I intend to. The subject is interesting but I reckon I'd watch anything with Toby Jones in, he's brilliant. 

He is brilliant in it- not mater what he is in within the first 2 minutes you forget he's acting , he just becomes the character 

Whole heartedly agree. Brilliant actor. 

Watching the final episode tonight. Found myself getting more and more angry, particularly as it seems it's taken a TV dramatisation (a brilliant one at that) to push it to the surface in parliament.

Hopefully those affected will finally get some resolution. Way too late though and shouldn't have ever happened.

sev112

Am I right that I haven’t actually seen her acknowledge taht what she personally did was wrong?  I have seen her say that she is sorry for hurt that people suffered, but I have seen no acknowledgement that it was (and others) that were personally wrong in what they did ?

VimFuego

she probably genuinely doesn't think she's done anything wrong, like so many of these cases about corporate misdeeds, they will feel maligned and slandered and treated unfairly.  

breakstuff

VimFuego said:

she probably genuinely doesn't think she's done anything wrong, like so many of these cases about corporate misdeeds, they will feel maligned and slandered and treated unfairly.  

She's a sociopath like a lot of people in high office. Pretty much a requirement to get to the top nowadays.

p90fool

CaseOfAce said:

Kittyfrisk said:

More suggested reading from the only organisation that has been following the scandal for years, before the BBC Radio 4 series.
Not that ITV haven't done a great service in raising the issue to a wider audience & putting pressure on the Government, but credit where its due, eh? 
https://www.private-eye.co.uk/special-reports/justice-lost-in-the-post
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/may/10/exposing-the-great-post-office-scandal-part-1

Ian Hislop and co. must be a irritated given that Private Eye has been banging the drum on this saga for years... and the only thing that's finally resulted in the necessary action has been an ITV drama with that bloke from The Detectorists in it.

I'm sure they're quite used to it after 60 years or so, it's quite amazing how many stories which were "broken" by mainstream journalists originally appeared in Private Eye, sometimes for years before anyone else took them up. 

I subscribed for a about 20 years and often shouted at the radio "We already knew!"

ICBM

p90fool said:

CaseOfAce said:

Ian Hislop and co. must be a irritated given that Private Eye has been banging the drum on this saga for years... and the only thing that's finally resulted in the necessary action has been an ITV drama with that bloke from The Detectorists in it.

I'm sure they're quite used to it after 60 years or so, it's quite amazing how many stories which were "broken" by mainstream journalists originally appeared in Private Eye, sometimes for years before anyone else took them up. 

I subscribed for a about 20 years and often shouted at the radio "We already knew!"

This is why I subscribe - the humour is funny to read, but the magazine is far more important than that, it's one of the few genuine investigative papers left and often pursues stories that the 'serious' press don't seem to want to bother with.

theatreanchor

Solid take from Hislop. Perhaps this will bring more attention to the excellent PE. 

https://youtu.be/DZP0Ffw6ky0?si=TWYZjMRV80RGzZ3Z

guitars4you

ICBM said:

p90fool said:

CaseOfAce said:

Ian Hislop and co. must be a irritated given that Private Eye has been banging the drum on this saga for years... and the only thing that's finally resulted in the necessary action has been an ITV drama with that bloke from The Detectorists in it.

I'm sure they're quite used to it after 60 years or so, it's quite amazing how many stories which were "broken" by mainstream journalists originally appeared in Private Eye, sometimes for years before anyone else took them up. 

I subscribed for a about 20 years and often shouted at the radio "We already knew!"

This is why I subscribe - the humour is funny to read, but the magazine is far more important than that, it's one of the few genuine investigative papers left and often pursues stories that the 'serious' press don't seem to want to bother with.

I like it and like Ian - Just don't have enough time to read every issue and absorb it 

Kittyfrisk

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

p90fool said:

CaseOfAce said:

Ian Hislop and co. must be a irritated given that Private Eye has been banging the drum on this saga for years... and the only thing that's finally resulted in the necessary action has been an ITV drama with that bloke from The Detectorists in it.

I'm sure they're quite used to it after 60 years or so, it's quite amazing how many stories which were "broken" by mainstream journalists originally appeared in Private Eye, sometimes for years before anyone else took them up. 

I subscribed for a about 20 years and often shouted at the radio "We already knew!"

This is why I subscribe - the humour is funny to read, but the magazine is far more important than that, it's one of the few genuine investigative papers left and often pursues stories that the 'serious' press don't seem to want to bother with.

I like it and like Ian - Just don't have enough time to read every issue and absorb it 

Read it in the lavatory/toilet/loo/khazi, that way you have all the time & additional absorbency that you need 
Do it, do it, do it... https://checkout.private-eye.co.uk/SingleItem?Item=PEY&Prom=PEYE1613

I'm certain that Ian Hislop & the Private Eye team wouldn't mind how long you took :-D

From the latest (pre ITV) edition.

EricTheWeary

p90fool said:

CaseOfAce said:

Kittyfrisk said:

More suggested reading from the only organisation that has been following the scandal for years, before the BBC Radio 4 series.
Not that ITV haven't done a great service in raising the issue to a wider audience & putting pressure on the Government, but credit where its due, eh? 
https://www.private-eye.co.uk/special-reports/justice-lost-in-the-post
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/may/10/exposing-the-great-post-office-scandal-part-1

Ian Hislop and co. must be a irritated given that Private Eye has been banging the drum on this saga for years... and the only thing that's finally resulted in the necessary action has been an ITV drama with that bloke from The Detectorists in it.

I'm sure they're quite used to it after 60 years or so, it's quite amazing how many stories which were "broken" by mainstream journalists originally appeared in Private Eye, sometimes for years before anyone else took them up. 

I subscribed for a about 20 years and often shouted at the radio "We already knew!"

Don’t know if it gets a mention in the programme but apparently the first journalist to take an interest in the story worked for Computer Weekly. I guess not a journal that was going to break big stories but amazing for how long this was known/written about but people still going to prison, committing suicide,etc. The Tories now trying to align themselves with the public over this, what have they been doing for the last 13 years? 

Kittyfrisk

For those that haven't yet totally OD'd on the whole thing, Radio 4 tonight at 8pm (repeated from 2020)  "Second Class Citizens: The Post Office IT Scandal"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000f5hb

Reverend

theatreanchor said:

Really good TV - and a terrible story of injustice. Seeing Sunak scramble demonstrates the power of decent drama. More cynically, it gives the Tories a fighting chance at the election given their last-minute reactive actions.

You say that like there won't be at least 7 more tory scandals or disasters between now and the election 

theatreanchor

Reverend said:

theatreanchor said:

Really good TV - and a terrible story of injustice. Seeing Sunak scramble demonstrates the power of decent drama. More cynically, it gives the Tories a fighting chance at the election given their last-minute reactive actions.

You say that like there won't be at least 7 more tory scandals or disasters between now and the election 

Ha!  Yeah, true. My jaded, pessimistic nature there.

Gassage

I am just in process of getting to grips with this but re Vennells- I have a simple solution

Add up the time served by all SPMs.

That's her sentence. 

Perfectly equitable.

guitars4you

Gassage said:

I am just in process of getting to grips with this but re Vennells- I have a simple solution

Add up the time served by all SPMs.

That's her sentence. 

Perfectly equitable.

You are right but the can had already been kicked down the road a bit before then - Even Ian Hislop and P Eye didn't get on to the story until a few years after it first started 

Part of me says that surely someone in the audit department must have sensed something was wrong - They sent in a team of walking suits to a number of Post Offices by then - All with the same 'issue' so surely the 'boss' in this sector should have noticed a stream of similar issues - Maybe they did and it was ignored above and after 

Lost the link now - It might have been in the long P Eye report - But an 'advisor' to an early post office internal inquiry, or a government sub committee inquiry , effectively reported that 'Mr Bates only has a small following so nothing to report and no threat/worry that needs any further investigation' - In other words we can shut up a bunch of 'no bodies' and ignore it all 

I dare say that as it has gone on that long and many have sat on various parts of the throne, be it PO or Minister Role for the PO (aka Jo Swinson) that many can/will blame others - As such no one person will get any 'public blame or sentence' - Hard to believe that as Jo Swinson + others knew about it, then surely so did Cameron etc 

ICBM

Gassage said:

I am just in process of getting to grips with this but re Vennells- I have a simple solution

Add up the time served by all SPMs.

That's her sentence. 

Perfectly equitable.

It needs to be more evenly distributed among all those at the Post Office and Fujitsu who were responsible, but there’s still probably plenty to go round.

m_c

The main question is still, who knew what and when?

IIRC it was briefly touched on in the drama where they found an email from Vennells (or possibly another senior manager) where they asked for clarification as to whether anybody could actually alter the figures, and it was revealed that although the PO couldn't, Fujitsu could.
So who in the PO knew Fujitsu could do that, and when did they find out?
Did the investigators know?
And why weren't suspected accounts properly audited?

My hope is that the ongoing public enquiry reveals what actually went on, and who made the key decisions that resulted in all the wrongful convictions.