Mr Bates Vs The Post Office

Reverend

I saw a number of people had their appeals rejected or were told they could not appeal. Does this mean than judges have been at fault or is this the result of more lying in court?

sev112

ICBM said:

Gassage said:

I am just in process of getting to grips with this but re Vennells- I have a simple solution

Add up the time served by all SPMs.

That's her sentence. 

Perfectly equitable.

It needs to be more evenly distributed among all those at the Post Office and Fujitsu who were responsible, but there’s still probably plenty to go round.

That’s just the imprisonmnets
on the eye for an eye basis
add
people turning up at their houses with police , threatening the, for stealing money
Freeze their assets then take Them to court while not allowing them any paid for legal support
cause them terrible stress, break up their marriages, take them to hospital and give them electrical shock therapy to take away their childhood memories, and then bring a few of them to the point of suicide, and then say, and now we want money from you

that might make me feel that justice has been served

i have still yet to see anyone one of them say, I did things wrong and knew it at the time

NothingOnTheTele

Reverend said:

I saw a number of people had their appeals rejected or were told they could not appeal. Does this mean than judges have been at fault or is this the result of more lying in court?

You're not automatically entitled to appeal, otherwise the courts would be inundated with convicted criminals 'chancing it'. You have to demonstrate that an appeal is warranted. So it's not necessarily the fault of the judiciary that some had their appeals rejected.

Kittyfrisk

Great interview with Ian Hislop & Rebecca Thomson (Computer Weekly) on the Media Show, R4.
Acerbic as ever & totally supportive of the ITV drama & journalists. Well played, bonny lad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001v3md

Gassage

Question I have asked on Twitter- In terms of the #PostOffceScandal if #stephendilley nd his team @wbd_uk and also #richardmorgan were unsure of full evidential disclosure as per their evidence, why did they not recuse themselves from representation?

Calla85

Whilst watching kept thinking surely all these discrepancies would have showed up in the Accounts because of double entry etc.

Turns out discrepancies were posted to a suspense account and if unallocated / unclaimed after 3 years they would then hit the post offices P&L account and be treated as profit. 

Nitefly

Here is a man who investigated the Horizon system in 2003 and found discrepancies - he was ignored, then sacked, then discredited:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-67921974

fretmeister

Barrister Gordon Exall has written extensively about this on his blog

MR BATES AND THE POST OFFICE: LOOKING BACK TO THE CASE OF THE YEAR 2019 – Civil Litigation Brief

MR BATES AND THE POST OFFICE 2: THE JUDGE’S VIEW ON WITNESS CREDIBILITY – Civil Litigation Brief

MR BATES AND THE POST OFFICE 3: THE POST OFFICE’S APPLICATION THAT THE JUDGE RECUSE THEMSELVES BECAUSE HE WAS “BIASED” AGAINST THEM – Civil Litigation Brief

Worth a read.

Offset

As the Public Enquiry commenced this morning on the Beeb, it struck me how the civility, legal representation and transparency extended to those responsible for this appalling scandal (especially one of the lead PO investigators, who judging by his performance and demeanour thus far couldn't apparently be trusted to investigate the disappearance of my cat) is in stark contrast to the way in which the innocent SPMs were treated.

What I didn't know until very recently is that the police and CPS were not involved in this - the PO brought these criminal prosecutions themselves.  In other words, it was in their interest to pursue the innocent, recover the missing funds and cover their arses rather than thinking "Hmmmm.  Thousands of cases of fraud... that's a bit odd.  Perhaps we should check the veracity of our accounting system...".

Someone - maybe multiple people - needs to do porridge for this.

Reverend

Offset said:

As the Public Enquiry commenced this morning on the Beeb, it struck me how the civility, legal representation and transparency extended to those responsible for this appalling scandal (especially one of the lead PO investigators, who judging by his performance and demeanour thus far couldn't apparently be trusted to investigate the disappearance of my cat) is in stark contrast to the way in which the innocent SPMs were treated.

What I didn't know until very recently is that the police and CPS were not involved in this - the PO brought these criminal prosecutions themselves.  In other words, it was in their interest to pursue the innocent, recover the missing funds and cover their arses rather than thinking "Hmmmm.  Thousands of cases of fraud... that's a bit odd.  Perhaps we should check the veracity of our accounting system...".

Someone - maybe multiple people - needs to do porridge for this.

Also, someone at the post office was happy to sign off on £13 million to pursuit these cases.

UnclePsychosis

Kittyfrisk said:

Great interview with Ian Hislop & Rebecca Thomson (Computer Weekly) on the Media Show, R4.
Acerbic as ever & totally supportive of the ITV drama & journalists. Well played, bonny lad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001v3md

This was a great listen. Hislop absolutely nails the reality of the Tory response to the last week as well. 

fretmeister

The Solicitors Regulation Authority are having a close look at the PO's lawyers too. In house and external.
They have announced they will wait for the end of the enquiry so they can get all the evidence from that too.

It seems there might be some striking off to be done.

Offset

This is painful to watch.  As a friend once remarked about the relationship between two colleagues, "it's like watching a cat playing with a perpetually bemused mouse".

theatreanchor

Kittyfrisk said:

Great interview with Ian Hislop & Rebecca Thomson (Computer Weekly) on the Media Show, R4.
Acerbic as ever & totally supportive of the ITV drama & journalists. Well played, bonny lad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001v3md

This was great. Thanks for sharing.

breakstuff

theatreanchor said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Great interview with Ian Hislop & Rebecca Thomson (Computer Weekly) on the Media Show, R4.
Acerbic as ever & totally supportive of the ITV drama & journalists. Well played, bonny lad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001v3md

This was great. Thanks for sharing.

As is this clip of Hislop ripping 'Sir'Jake Berry (Sir? how the F did that happen!!) a new one. You can see the whole clip on the Preston show from yesterday on ITVx. Hislop was pretty much fuming. You can definitely get how passionate he is over the whole subject.

Gassage

Offset said:

This is painful to watch.  As a friend once remarked about the relationship between two colleagues, "it's like watching a cat playing with a perpetually bemused mouse".

Bradshaw?

Julian Blake is absolutely dismantling him.

Offset

Gassage said:

Offset said:

This is painful to watch.  As a friend once remarked about the relationship between two colleagues, "it's like watching a cat playing with a perpetually bemused mouse".

Bradshaw?

Julian Drake is absolutely dismantling him.

Yes, the lovely Bradshaw - "the worst investigator in history" according to journo Nick Wallis.  Once Blake is through with him, he won't know which arse to wipe first.  

Gassage

Offset said:

Gassage said:

Offset said:

This is painful to watch.  As a friend once remarked about the relationship between two colleagues, "it's like watching a cat playing with a perpetually bemused mouse".

Bradshaw?

Julian Drake is absolutely dismantling him.

Yes, the lovely Bradshaw - "the worst investigator in history" according to journo Nick Wallis.  Once Blake is through with him, he won't know which arse to wipe first.  

Call me a neanderthal, but I'd pay to smack in the mouth.

Surely he must face criminal proceedings?

guitars4you

This is interesting- please read further below - As Ian Hislop states ‘the journalist and politicians are now all on board with this story, but why has it taken a tv show for them to get behind this story - Those to blame are looking over their shoulders wondering who will protect them and what else is coming out - There are many questions to be asked of the government in this and its various PO ministers - After all they knew the PO spent over 100 million of tax payers money defending their position - But my question is this - We need the opposition to be good - To continually test the government  - To raise various questions and topics and point out errors that they are not happy with and make sure we are all aware of such issues - So where have the opposition been through out this saga - So now read below 

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) brought three cases against postmasters while the Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer was running the CPS.

Starmer served as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) – in charge of the CPS - from 2008 to 2013.

During this period, the CPS says it prosecuted three cases. They resulted in sentences for theft and theft and fraud. 

In one of these, a person was sentenced to 21 months in jail in 2009.

We asked whether Starmer would have been aware of these cases at the time, but the CPS would not say and Labour referred us back to the CPS when we asked the same question.

So far, the CPS says it has identified 11 cases it prosecuted – in connection with the Horizon IT scandal - between 2001 and 2020.

Last year, the CPS says it prosecuted 400,000 criminal cases. Not all of these cases would have needed DPP approval to Prosecute

Offset

Gassage said:

Offset said:

Gassage said:

Offset said:

This is painful to watch.  As a friend once remarked about the relationship between two colleagues, "it's like watching a cat playing with a perpetually bemused mouse".

Bradshaw?

Julian Drake is absolutely dismantling him.

Yes, the lovely Bradshaw - "the worst investigator in history" according to journo Nick Wallis.  Once Blake is through with him, he won't know which arse to wipe first.  

Call me a neanderthal, but I'd pay to smack in the mouth.

Surely he must face criminal proceedings?

I presume he'll lose his job, but not sure there's a law against being a stupid incompetent idiot promoted way beyond his level of ability. Sadly.

Someone needs to have their collar felt that's for sure.