Last Dinner Party

stickyfiddle

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

Kurtis

darthed1981 said:

Kurtis said:

Whippersnapper!

<virtual man hug>

Bacatcha 

darthed1981

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

Isn't "Nothing Matters" just "Closer" by Nine Inch Nails sung by a bunch of girls?

It sort of always came across that way to me...

darthed1981

MaximumZargon said:

Reckon ANY forum is going to have older members; the youngsters aren't about forums. Forums are from the olden days of olde.

Verily good sir, tis true, now drink deep of this mead and let us discuss the latest play of that Christopher Marlowe before someone stabs him...

distressed

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

I'm sure I Wanna Dance with Somebody would be equally big hit if sung by Meat Loaf.

euan

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

If they also had a similar amount of backing? Yes. See Future Islands for example. 

MaximumZargon

euan said:

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

If they also had a similar amount of backing? Yes. See Future Islands for example. 

Future Islands is an outrageously weird comparison! Love it! Mind blown.

euan

It’s one that’s popped into my mind when I’ve been hearing TLDP’s current single come on the radio. It has a similar juxtaposition vibe that I got when Future Islands first appeared on 6 Music. 

MaximumZargon

euan said:

It’s one that’s popped into my mind when I’ve been hearing TLDP’s current single come on the radio. It has a similar juxtaposition vibe that I got when Future Islands first appeared on 6 Music. 

Yeah, I guess I thought it was funny cos they've been around for like 20 years.

Litterick

Spice Girls for grown-ups. The opposite of Idles.

ewal

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

They have that posh public school educated with friends/family in important places vibe to them, so maybe the male band equivalent would be someone like Keane?

I think they maybe also pretended to be a product of the independent music scene?

MaximumZargon

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

I think major labels believe it's easier to market female rock bands than male. Reckon young men will buy records by male or female bands, but young women often seem put off by male guitar bands (don't blame them!).

Plus any criticisms thrown at the female band can be countered by claims of sexism, which is handy.

Plus male band singing 'I wanna hump you all night long, bay....beeee' is cheesy as f*** but same from female band, and suddenly it's exciting and edgy.

If I was choosing (as a major label), I'd go female all day.

darthed1981

Litterick said:

Spice Girls for grown-ups. The opposite of Idles.

Idles are the Spice Girls for kids?

But then who are the Spice Girls the Spice Girls for?

darthed1981

ewal said:

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

They have that posh public school educated with friends/family in important places vibe to them, so maybe the male band equivalent would be someone like Keane?

I think they maybe also pretended to be a product of the independent music scene?

I think Keane just released a bunch of songs lots of people liked... and cashed the cheques.

I honestly have seen quite a lot of interviews and never seen them claim they were the result of years in a transit van - they did a few gigs and skipped to the big leagues.

Surely... anyone would skip the toilet circuit stage if they could got straight to number one albums...

I totally get if people don't like them, that's fair comment, but why this obsession with auhtenticity.

Hang on a sec... are you Mark Agnesi?

euan

MaximumZargon said:

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

Plus male band singing 'I wanna hump you all night long, bay....beeee' is cheesy as f*** but same from female band, and suddenly it's exciting and edgy.

If I was choosing (as a major label), I'd go female all day.

That’s 95% of the songs written and sung by men. 

MaximumZargon

darthed1981 said:

ewal said:

stickyfiddle said:

Question for the group. If the same song was put out by a bunch of dudes would it be a hit…?

They have that posh public school educated with friends/family in important places vibe to them, so maybe the male band equivalent would be someone like Keane?

I think they maybe also pretended to be a product of the independent music scene?

I think Keane just released a bunch of songs lots of people liked... and cashed the cheques.

I honestly have seen quite a lot of interviews and never seen them claim they were the result of years in a transit van - they did a few gigs and skipped to the big leagues.

Surely... anyone would skip the toilet circuit stage if they could got straight to number one albums...

I totally get if people don't like them, that's fair comment, but why this obsession with auhtenticity.

Hang on a sec... are you Mark Agnesi?

Cos they mentioned repeatedly in their backstory guff that they'd 'honed their craft touring the dumps' (paraphrase) but never ONCE mentioned that they are managed by Q Prime.

1. If it doesn't matter (small venue gigs) then why lie? Why go to the trouble of creating a fake backstory?

2. If Q Prime doesn't matter, why fail to mention THE SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR in their rise to stardom? 

3. The industry plant standard issue story regarding 'toilet venues and transit vans' is hugely disrespectful to the network of diy/small promoters who basically ARE the UK live music scene. They aren't a stepping stone, they are the scene. The exception is bands playing posh venues, the rule is bands playing diy/small venues.

If none of this stuff matters, why the total lack of transparency? Lies really. And obfuscation.

Rant over.

ToneControl

Every time we discuss a female-led band here, as soon as anyone makes any comment that implies that the visual image presented is intended to further their career, a few gallant white knights emerge to criticise these dirty old men, because they "shouldn't be looking at them".

As if no male band members ever spent time developing an image, or dressing up for the cameras.

Yes it would be great if the world was a fair place, but it's generally accepted that in most successful bands, the frontperson(s) are attractive or interesting to look at. 

It is a dilemma for any older gentlemen to make any positive or negative comment about how attractive young females are really.
Bill Oddie got skinned for just mentioning younger women in a comedy panel show once.



22:26

EricTheWeary

Bill Oddie went to the same schools as my kids (not the same year). Local hero. 

All female/female fronted bands when they are created/ heavily promoted are, I would argue, done so much more with female punters in mind, more as aspirational figures for 13 year old girls than as sex objects for 50 year old men. I think there's just a forum mindset at work here. The half naked women in Whitesnake videos they were aimed at us. 

And once you start using the word Rock then it becomes very difficult to name many (if any) all female rock bands that have reached the level of success of Metallica or ColdPlay (Rick Beato called them a rock band this week so I'm taking that as read)or whoever. I'm pretty sure that being an all female band playing anything under the umbrella of Rock limits your sales potential rather than expands it. 

The LDP ar getting right on my tits because I don't particularly like them and they have been promoted to a level where I haven't been oblivious of them (as I normally am with new acts). However, I think I am just collateral damage with their Facebook ads and TV appearances, they aren't reliant upon my limited purchasing power to become The Next Big Thing. 

MaximumZargon

EricTheWeary said:

Bill Oddie went to the same schools as my kids (not the same year). Local hero. 

All female/female fronted bands when they are created/ heavily promoted are, I would argue, done so much more with female punters in mind, more as aspirational figures for 13 year old girls than as sex objects for 50 year old men. I think there's just a forum mindset at work here. The half naked women in Whitesnake videos they were aimed at us. 

And once you start using the word Rock then it becomes very difficult to name many (if any) all female rock bands that have reached the level of success of Metallica or ColdPlay (Rick Beato called them a rock band this week so I'm taking that as read)or whoever. I'm pretty sure that being an all female band playing anything under the umbrella of Rock limits your sales potential rather than expands it. 

The LDP ar getting right on my tits because I don't particularly like them and they have been promoted to a level where I haven't been oblivious of them (as I normally am with new acts). However, I think I am just collateral damage with their Facebook ads and TV appearances, they aren't reliant upon my limited purchasing power to become The Next Big Thing. 

I reckon they're aimed way more at the Radio 2 market/Glasto market than teen girls. The money is in that market, not kids listening on TikTok, and let's remember that this is a pretty stodgy dad-rock band, not Skrillex or whatever.

Sam Fender market I reckon. Safe old stodgy rock ready for the Pyramid stage.

darthed1981

MaximumZargon said:

Cos they mentioned repeatedly in their backstory guff that they'd 'honed their craft touring the dumps' (paraphrase) but never ONCE mentioned that they are managed by Q Prime.

1. If it doesn't matter (small venue gigs) then why lie? Why go to the trouble of creating a fake backstory?

2. If Q Prime doesn't matter, why fail to mention THE SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR in their rise to stardom? 

3. The industry plant standard issue story regarding 'toilet venues and transit vans' is hugely disrespectful to the network of diy/small promoters who basically ARE the UK live music scene. They aren't a stepping stone, they are the scene. The exception is bands playing posh venues, the rule is bands playing diy/small venues.

If none of this stuff matters, why the total lack of transparency? Lies really. And obfuscation.

Rant over.

I think I see where we differ here... some stuff I really don't care about that clearly means a lot to you, fair enough...

1.  I don't care - it's marketing, Jack and Meg pretended to be brother and sister when they were married - it's just marketing.

2.  If you go into music and go "naah - not the BEST management team who are interested, I want a mediocre one, because more cred..." then you are probably a bit daft - tis a business no?

3.  Well, they are a stepping stone though, for anyone who makes the steps.  Sure they are important, as otherwise the next generation can't make the steps, but there is nothing terribly virtuous about staying at the bottom.  If you are happy at the bottom, that's great, but to stay there because it's virtuous?  Again - if someone is waving a cheque...

TBF - It probably means more to people who have lived near cities that HAVE music scenes, I never really have, so I've always had to find bands I like first, then see them live, rather than vice versa.  I actually first heard of TLDP from Justin Hawkins.