Last Dinner Party

darthed1981

MaximumZargon said:

I reckon they're aimed way more at the Radio 2 market/Glasto market than teen girls. The money is in that market, not kids listening on TikTok, and let's remember that this is a pretty stodgy dad-rock band, not Skrillex or whatever.

Sam Fender market I reckon. Safe old stodgy rock ready for the Pyramid stage.

I think we just like different music, I love Sam Fender, I don't like Skrillex, respect it sure, but it aint for me.

Who makes all this amazing, edgy, non-stodgy music anyhow?  Is Skrillex your example?

MaximumZargon

darthed1981 said:

MaximumZargon said:

I reckon they're aimed way more at the Radio 2 market/Glasto market than teen girls. The money is in that market, not kids listening on TikTok, and let's remember that this is a pretty stodgy dad-rock band, not Skrillex or whatever.

Sam Fender market I reckon. Safe old stodgy rock ready for the Pyramid stage.

I think we just like different music, I love Sam Fender, I don't like Skrillex, respect it sure, but it aint for me.

Who makes all this amazing, edgy, non-stodgy music anyhow?  Is Skrillex your example?

Wasn't a value judgement; I just meant that I don't reckon the label is aiming this band at teenagers, cos there's little money in that. Reckon they're aimed at 30-50 year olds who buy the £500 festival tickets, and the vinyl and the arena tickets. Maybe they bring their kids to the arena, and they all get matching tees.

Major labels are answerable to their shareholders like anybody else.

Skrillex was just a silly example of not stodgy rock.

euan

There’s a lot of playing the (wo)man not the ball happening here. 

Kate Bush didn’t come up playing toilets and had a leg up from Gilmour. 

Her music was clearly shite. 

MaximumZargon

darthed1981 said:

MaximumZargon said:

Cos they mentioned repeatedly in their backstory guff that they'd 'honed their craft touring the dumps' (paraphrase) but never ONCE mentioned that they are managed by Q Prime.

1. If it doesn't matter (small venue gigs) then why lie? Why go to the trouble of creating a fake backstory?

2. If Q Prime doesn't matter, why fail to mention THE SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR in their rise to stardom? 

3. The industry plant standard issue story regarding 'toilet venues and transit vans' is hugely disrespectful to the network of diy/small promoters who basically ARE the UK live music scene. They aren't a stepping stone, they are the scene. The exception is bands playing posh venues, the rule is bands playing diy/small venues.

If none of this stuff matters, why the total lack of transparency? Lies really. And obfuscation.

Rant over.

I think I see where we differ here... some stuff I really don't care about that clearly means a lot to you, fair enough...

1.  I don't care - it's marketing, Jack and Meg pretended to be brother and sister when they were married - it's just marketing.

2.  If you go into music and go "naah - not the BEST management team who are interested, I want a mediocre one, because more cred..." then you are probably a bit daft - tis a business no?

3.  Well, they are a stepping stone though, for anyone who makes the steps.  Sure they are important, as otherwise the next generation can't make the steps, but there is nothing terribly virtuous about staying at the bottom.  If you are happy at the bottom, that's great, but to stay there because it's virtuous?  Again - if someone is waving a cheque...

TBF - It probably means more to people who have lived near cities that HAVE music scenes, I never really have, so I've always had to find bands I like first, then see them live, rather than vice versa.  I actually first heard of TLDP from Justin Hawkins.

Without wanting to seem a dick, I'm not sure you read my post properly as the points you make have nothing to do with what I wrote.

darthed1981

euan said:

There’s a lot of playing the (wo)man not the ball happening here. 

Kate Bush didn’t come up playing toilets and had a leg up from Gilmour. 

Her music was clearly shite. 

Well quite - the possibility that LDP were signed on the principle that their ace management team... actually know what they are doing... seems to be rejected out of hand.

MaximumZargon

euan said:

There’s a lot of playing the (wo)man not the ball happening here. 

Kate Bush didn’t come up playing toilets and had a leg up from Gilmour. 

Her music was clearly shite. 

She didn't pretend she did though. AFAIK she didn't make up some daft backstory, and obfuscate the fact that she had MAJOR help. She wrote songs, had a leg-up, made amazing music. No bullshit. Afaik.

darthed1981

MaximumZargon said:

darthed1981 said:

MaximumZargon said:

I reckon they're aimed way more at the Radio 2 market/Glasto market than teen girls. The money is in that market, not kids listening on TikTok, and let's remember that this is a pretty stodgy dad-rock band, not Skrillex or whatever.

Sam Fender market I reckon. Safe old stodgy rock ready for the Pyramid stage.

I think we just like different music, I love Sam Fender, I don't like Skrillex, respect it sure, but it aint for me.

Who makes all this amazing, edgy, non-stodgy music anyhow?  Is Skrillex your example?

Wasn't a value judgement; I just meant that I don't reckon the label is aiming this band at teenagers, cos there's little money in that. Reckon they're aimed at 30-50 year olds who buy the £500 festival tickets, and the vinyl and the arena tickets. Maybe they bring their kids to the arena, and they all get matching tees.

Major labels are answerable to their shareholders like anybody else.

Skrillex was just a silly example of not stodgy rock.

Yes but honestly not being a dick @MaximumZargon ; - you are clearly drawing a line between things you like and "stodgy Dad rock" - whether Skrillex or not.

So I remain somewhat curious what you like specifically?

Not accusing you personally - as I've no issue with you or opinion - so please don't take it personally - but there is a sort of idea floating around in this thread that LDP are an example of an impure or overly commercial form of guitar based music, implying that a superior one exists...

I'm honestly keen to understand what this other side of the coin is.

darthed1981

MaximumZargon said:

darthed1981 said:

MaximumZargon said:

Cos they mentioned repeatedly in their backstory guff that they'd 'honed their craft touring the dumps' (paraphrase) but never ONCE mentioned that they are managed by Q Prime.

1. If it doesn't matter (small venue gigs) then why lie? Why go to the trouble of creating a fake backstory?

2. If Q Prime doesn't matter, why fail to mention THE SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR in their rise to stardom? 

3. The industry plant standard issue story regarding 'toilet venues and transit vans' is hugely disrespectful to the network of diy/small promoters who basically ARE the UK live music scene. They aren't a stepping stone, they are the scene. The exception is bands playing posh venues, the rule is bands playing diy/small venues.

If none of this stuff matters, why the total lack of transparency? Lies really. And obfuscation.

Rant over.

I think I see where we differ here... some stuff I really don't care about that clearly means a lot to you, fair enough...

1.  I don't care - it's marketing, Jack and Meg pretended to be brother and sister when they were married - it's just marketing.

2.  If you go into music and go "naah - not the BEST management team who are interested, I want a mediocre one, because more cred..." then you are probably a bit daft - tis a business no?

3.  Well, they are a stepping stone though, for anyone who makes the steps.  Sure they are important, as otherwise the next generation can't make the steps, but there is nothing terribly virtuous about staying at the bottom.  If you are happy at the bottom, that's great, but to stay there because it's virtuous?  Again - if someone is waving a cheque...

TBF - It probably means more to people who have lived near cities that HAVE music scenes, I never really have, so I've always had to find bands I like first, then see them live, rather than vice versa.  I actually first heard of TLDP from Justin Hawkins.

Without wanting to seem a dick, I'm not sure you read my post properly as the points you make have nothing to do with what I wrote.

Sure it does, but more bluntly, directly to your points...

1.  Who cares?
2.  So?
3.  I'd rather be exceptional, given the opportunity.

TLDP are a major label band, so have massively more marketing muscle than the, again, mythical virtuous other.

They could go the other way, like say, the Reytons, and be entirely self-made - but it's upto THEM how they get to the top - I don't give a fuck if a great song comes from a band who have spent a decade playing in teeny venues or Taylor Swift.

Once again - it's totally cool if that IS important to you, but the idea that there is some objective standard of musical virtue is, well, bollocks.

MaximumZargon

darthed1981 said:

MaximumZargon said:

darthed1981 said:

MaximumZargon said:

I reckon they're aimed way more at the Radio 2 market/Glasto market than teen girls. The money is in that market, not kids listening on TikTok, and let's remember that this is a pretty stodgy dad-rock band, not Skrillex or whatever.

Sam Fender market I reckon. Safe old stodgy rock ready for the Pyramid stage.

I think we just like different music, I love Sam Fender, I don't like Skrillex, respect it sure, but it aint for me.

Who makes all this amazing, edgy, non-stodgy music anyhow?  Is Skrillex your example?

Wasn't a value judgement; I just meant that I don't reckon the label is aiming this band at teenagers, cos there's little money in that. Reckon they're aimed at 30-50 year olds who buy the £500 festival tickets, and the vinyl and the arena tickets. Maybe they bring their kids to the arena, and they all get matching tees.

Major labels are answerable to their shareholders like anybody else.

Skrillex was just a silly example of not stodgy rock.

Yes but honestly not being a dick @MaximumZargon ; - you are clearly drawing a line between things you like and "stodgy Dad rock" - whether Skrillex or not.

So I remain somewhat curious what you like specifically?

Not accusing you personally - as I've no issue with you or opinion - so please don't take it personally - but there is a sort of idea floating around in this thread that LDP are an example of an impure or overly commercial form of guitar based music, implying that a superior one exists...

I'm honestly keen to understand what this other side of the coin is.

That isn't my angle at all; my angle is that I find the need to lie/obfuscate in order to create a 'cool' backstory, when thousands of bands are LIVING that backstory every day a bit/very gross.. You want to talk about playing German punk squats? Play German punk squats. The 'toilet' venues in the UK are run by the most amazing. enthusiastic, awesome, supportive people; it is a genuine honour to play those places. It isn't a 'stepping stone'. It isn't a hardship.

Stuff I like? Abba, Led Zep, Slint, Mingus, Nick Drake, Mos Def, Voivod, Smiths, Kate Bush, Coltrane, Nik Kershaw, Jesus Lizard, Public Enemy, Steeleye Span, Joni Mitchell, Meshuggah, Fela Kuti...I dunno. All sorts of stuff. I don't look down on, or up to anybody because of their taste in music; that'd be silly.

darthed1981

MaximumZargon said:

That isn't my angle at all; my angle is that I find the need to lie/obfuscate in order to create a 'cool' backstory, when thousands of bands are LIVING that backstory every day a bit/very gross.. You want to talk about playing German punk squats? Play German punk squats. The 'toilet' venues in the UK are run by the most amazing. enthusiastic, awesome, supportive people; it is a genuine honour to play those places. It isn't a 'stepping stone'. It isn't a hardship.

Yeah I got that bit the first time you posted it.

I just think you are splitting that hair very thin indeed - we will just need to agree to disagree as I don't think it matters much personally - the important thing about marketing is don't believe your own as everyone's is a load of old bunk.

Rather a lot of Dad rock on your list of favourites as well, just presumably with less egregious marketing

darthed1981

I've actually been picturing what a "music industry plant" might look like - basically on the principle of the major labels being run by Triffids...

So I put it in an AI image generator and it gave me this...

https://i.postimg.cc/P5KGBFbk/music-industry-plant.jpg

Kurtis

euan said:

Kate Bush... 

Her music was clearly shite. 

Couldn't agree more!

  

jonnyburgo

I can imagine Mark E Smith saying "Posh student wankers"

darthed1981

jonnyburgo said:

I can imagine Mark E Smith saying "Posh student wankers"

Yeah but he couldn't write an actual tune to save his fucking life could he?

Pretending to like the Fall is something I gave up years ago.

jonnyburgo

darthed1981 said:

jonnyburgo said:

I can imagine Mark E Smith saying "Posh student wankers"

Yeah but he couldn't write an actual tune to save his fucking life could he?

Pretending to like the Fall is something I gave up years ago.

I object your honour.

darthed1981

jonnyburgo said:

darthed1981 said:

jonnyburgo said:

I can imagine Mark E Smith saying "Posh student wankers"

Yeah but he couldn't write an actual tune to save his fucking life could he?

Pretending to like the Fall is something I gave up years ago.

I object your honour.

lol

Grunfeld

Got set a link for Nothing Matters today.

Vocals have got a strong ABBA vibe for me.

No bad thing.  Like the song a lot.

darthed1981

Well, if this doesn't trigger my mid-life crisis, nothing will...

mrkb

darthed1981 said:

Well, if this doesn't trigger my mid-life crisis, nothing will...

How many seconds did you last

merlin

The Wet Dinner Party Legs. 
They can't even sing "fuck" on live television.

Punk clearly died decades ago.