Typical GAK...returning to old ways? (wish I'd never started this....just having a rant and whoosh!)

DartmoorHedgehog

I'd take a wild guess that Amazon's website cost a little bit more to develop than GAK (as a single shop) are willing/able to pay.  We get this all the time at work - customer says "can you make our website do x and y?", we say "yes, but it'll cost you more", customer says "but Amazon does it so obviously all websites do it".  Grrr.

And as for not being able to tell that "available to order" doesn't mean "in stock"... really?!  On its own it could be a bit ambiguous (does it mean available for the customer to order or available for GAK to order?), but when there is obviously another status of "in stock" then it makes it pretty clear IMO.  Perhaps they could change the description to "we've run out but have no reason to think we'll have any trouble getting some more from our supplier quite quickly, so we're taking orders and will get it to you as soon as we can", but that wouldn't look so tidy.

If it actually said "in stock" when they had none left then fair enough it was a cock-up (which does happen with stock control sometimes) but as long as the retailer informs the customer as soon as they see the order then I'd be happy with that.

The thing that annoys me most about buying online is when you order something from a seemingly UK-based company and then find they've sent it from China, via the Moon, so it takes months to arrive.

usedtobe

Who'd run a guitar shop, eh...?!

GuitarZero

Yoseph said:

Hi guys,

@mark_random thanks for giving me a shout on this, I'm not really on this forum as much as I should be. @rockhopper I'm really sorry your order got split and that you've decided not to shop with us as a result. No-one at GAK is trying to be misleading or deliberately offer bad service or hold onto people's money or anything like that. As @meltedbuzzbox said we do really try to whatever we can over the phone, and I think the guys we have working on the phone lines do a great job. 

Our website, like I'm sure everyone else's is, is linked to our stock system, every item we sell either states 'next day' 'available to order' or it gives a rough amount of days that the order will take. It never actually says 'in stock' as such, if it says 'available to order' then it means we need to order it from a supplier. I'd much rather it said 'out of stock' but Google won't let us list items as available for order if they are out of stock, it's a bit of a catch 22.

I guess one of a few things happened, either you read 'available to order' as being in stock (which is easy to do) or someone bought the last one at the same time as your order went through, either in the shop or over the phone. We are not ever trying to be misleading. Our website updates virtually realtime, and we do everything we can to keep people informed of what is in and out of stock. What would be the point in us doing business any other way?

We're not a big faceless company, we're 1 shop in Brighton and I'm sorry for any bad service anyone has had by using our website. I'm sorry that's it's made some of you so angry, it's not that nice to read from my end either. All we're trying to do is make shopping with us better than shopping with places like Thomann, so that guitar shops in this country stay open so you can try things out. 

If any of you ever have trouble then give me a shout either here or joe.branton@gak.co.uk

I would probably use you a bit more if your website was more user friendly so I'm pleased you're doing something about it.  The more places to shop the better in my opinion.

GuitarZero

underdog said:

Sassafras;649239" said:

What's the point of a retailer giving an expected delivery date if their supplier then lets them down. I'd rather not be given an expected date which may or may not happen, I'd prefer to get it when I get it.

So what's the point in listing it as available to order when it could take a year to come in, if ever

Gibson/Epiphone are terrible for this.  They don't give retailers dates on when they can expect stuff so you can place an order and just cross your fingers it will be within a few months.  

I'm also told that they just ship stuff to companies and they don't always know what's going to be in the order.  I think it has something to do with signing their life away to become an Authorized Dealer...

RaymondLin

I waited 5 months for my Atma from GuitarGuitar, however, they never knew when it will come and was clear on that when I ordered.

spacecadet

Here's a term you could use..

In Stock At Supplier

It's something I noticed that Richtone are now doing. If you see something thats out of stock you instantly leave that site. If you see it as in stock you expect it to be. Available to order (for some) can misinterpreted as in stock. In stock at supplier says it's available but you don't currently have it in at your store/ warehouse. I would say have the system set up so that it only shows as in stock if you have a stock holding level of say 2 or more. 

I'm a little surprised manufacturers allow things like this to happen. If someone has done the research, maybe tried something and decided they fancy one, if they don't get what they want when they want it there is a chance it could result in the customer not wanting that product anymore and finding an alternative and potentially competing product. 

leerocker

cant see what all the fuss is about, never had a problem with gak at all....

meltedbuzzbox

I think some people just like to moan

capo4th

The power of the Internet to make retailers better....

BloodEagle

Jesus give the guy a break - no wonder he didnt want to come on here with all you moaning and nitpicking tossers

Bogwhoppit

Its the 'Customer Spring', lets rise up against the infidel retailer and anoint a new stock control system. All hail King Stockcontrol...

Dave_Mc

Yoseph said:

I'd much rather it said 'out of stock' but Google won't let us list items as available for order if they are out of stock, it's a bit of a catch 22.

I didn't realise that, that's a fair point.

underdog said:

Or easily misconstrued by the shopper as its available for them to order from the web site

Yeah that's what I used to think it meant before it was pointed out on here. ) I dunno if it's our dialect here in NI, but I'd colloquially call buying online "putting in an order", or "ordering online", even if the item is in stock. So there's definitely the possibility there for confusion, at least for me )

Yoseph said:

Would changing it to 'available for pre-order' be better?

Yeah I think that might be a bit better. EDIT: though as not_the_dj said, it may well lead to more ambiguity. :-S

RaymondLin said:

What is obvious is that this is not the first time and the same problem keep arising. The terminology used on the site has been brought up many times so even though some people may understand, plenty others, potential customers will not. And we will be back to square 1 again.

So the question here is why is GAK keep on beating the same drums on the same note, but instead do something about the website. Harsh as it may, you got to treat the general public like idiots, don't give any ambiguity in your language so everything is clear from the get go. 

Or you can leave it as it is, and have another thread in a few weeks on the same thing.

Agreed, good post in general- though I don't agree that customers are idiots where there is genuine ambiguity, or where customers don't understand what's going on behind the scenes (the google thing that gak/Yoseph mentioned) because they haven't been told about it.

DartmoorHedgehog said:

And as for not being able to tell that "available to order" doesn't mean "in stock"... really?!  On its own it could be a bit ambiguous (does it mean available for the customer to order or available for GAK to order?), but when there is obviously another status of "in stock" then it makes it pretty clear IMO. 

Yeah but the thing is, that's only clear if you pore over the website and look up loads of different items. If you're looking for one particular item, and have never used GAK before, you won't see all those other items with the "Next Day Delivery" symbol.

Even the "Next Day Delivery" thing is a bit ambiguous to people who live in NI, the Scottish Islands etc. where it won't be next day.

Dave_Mc

Not to beat a dead horse, but from the GAK Terms and Conditions page (http://www.gak.co.uk/en/terms-and-conditions):

"In stock items ordered before 3pm for UK Mainland will be delivered Next Working Day where possible"

"The delivery charge shown is a standard charge and does not constitute a guarantee of delivery date from the time you have placed an order."

"When you place an order to purchase a product from GAK.co.uk, we will send you an e-mail confirming receipt of your order and containing the details of your order. Your order represents an offer to us to purchase a product..."

(My bolding)

So obviously, just like me, GAK uses the term "order" to define buying something from their website, even if in stock, so saying, "Available to order" when things are out of stock, at least in my opinion, represents a pretty obvious ambiguity there (it could also just as well mean "Available to buy on our website" (i.e. in stock)). And the people saying it's blindingly obvious that if it says that, that the item is out of stock, are, again in my opinion, mistaken.

EDIT: Just to clarify- that is to all the forum members who are saying that people who don't understand "Available to Order" are effectively idiots, rather than to GAK, which has (through Yoseph) helpfully explained why it does it the way it does (and would prefer not to have to).

PVO_Dave

I can see both sides on this, @Yoseph I'm a little confused as to what Google has to do with GAK listing items not in stock for sale, unless it's a Google shop I've not heard of, or do you mean they won't index it?

The issue with the text is a genuine one, some of you are assuming that the end user has visited more than one product to see both statuses, they in fact could have gone straight to the product that is available to order. 

How about:

In Stock (Next day)

Available to order (Item on back order)

Something to that effect anyway. 

Mistakes happen, good that some retailers are prepared to come on here and explain. 

Sassafras

meltedbuzzbox said:

I think some people just like to moan

I can't possibly believe that.

Bogwhoppit

meltedbuzzbox said:

I think some people just like to moan

We live in a more consumer driven society, where the internet is a store of information on consumer rights. On one hand this gives agency to challenge large corporations - think Consumer Action Group and Money saving expert. On the other hand, issues that were once insignificant are now being played out in the small claims court.

We've now had the two extremes; in previous decades the customer was regularly stuffed by the old school high street shops , these days, the distance selling regs and access to consumer rights means the small high street shop don't stand a chance. Somewhere between the two is equilibrium, we just haven't reached that balance yet.

I'm as guilty as the next person, this new found information makes me a demanding customer. As a consumer, I like transparency in my dealings or I walk to the next online shop. Which is only a click away.

shuikit

Yoseph said:

Our website, like I'm sure everyone else's is, is linked to our stock system, every item we sell either states 'next day' 'available to order' or it gives a rough amount of days that the order will take. It never actually says 'in stock' as such, if it says 'available to order' then it means we need to order it from a supplier. I'd much rather it said 'out of stock' but Google won't let us list items as available for order if they are out of stock, it's a bit of a catch 22.

Sorry @Yoseph I'm going back a few posts as I've only just read it.

To me, it doesn't sound like a catch 22 at all.  It sounds like a sneaky way around the system to get more items listed on Google so that you can get more traffic/potential customers etc.  I find it very frustrating when you finally get to the product page to find that it's not actually in stock to order.  In my opinion, even though GAK aren't the only ones to do this or similar by any means I don't think that it's a particularly good practice and thus any annoyance from customers that comes as a result of it is deserved.

Yoseph

Not really @shuikit , the alternative is that we have to manually take down every item every time we sell out, we stock thousands and thousands of items, all of them available for order whether in stock or not, every single shop on the internet displays items both in and out of stock. As usual with this sort of thing it's more a case of practicality than some evil master plan.

To be honest this sort of assumption is pretty indefensible from my position. You'll all have your opinions, and I guess that's what forums are for, but I signed up to this as did Mark before me, off of our own backs so we could help out and offer special deals for forum members, answer questions etc. If this sort of thread is the trend for The Fretboard I don't see any point in continuing, I can't justify the amount of time spent. What can I say here? We are a small shop in Brighton made up of about 30 staff, we run a website and list all the stuff we can order. There is no Goldfinger at the top, we are not a corporation, I'm sorry that a few of you have had problems, we will always do our best to sort out any hitches and do our best to make sure they don't happen in the first place. 

If you need anything or have any questions please get hold of me on joe.branton@gak.co.uk

crunchman

I think there is a difference of opinion about how GAK is seen.  @Yoseph sees it as a "small shop in Brighton made up of about 30 staff".

Personally I don't see that as small.  I think my local guitar shop has 3 full time sales staff and maybe a Saturday guy, plus the guys who work in the repair department.   I can't see you would need more than 10 staff to run a "small shop".  Most of these guys must behind the scenes handling web orders.  30 staff is putting you up against the big internet retailers not small shops.  In that case people are going to compare you with the other big internet retailers.

If the stock system doesn't work and says something is in stock when it isn't, then people will start threads like this.  And people like me will chip in to say that I have had the same experience.  As I said above, to be fair to GAK, GuitarGuitar were just as bad.   Their website said they had 4 in stock when they didn't have any.

If this was a "small shop" then people might be more forgiving, but I don't see GAK as a small shop, and I doubt many other people on here do.  I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of their business is over the web.  In that case the website needs to be accurate.

Yoseph

We'll endeavour to make sure it is. I'll pass on the earlier suggestions about rewording the website.