Line 6 Helix

fretmeister

I still love mine. 

I’d like a few other bass amps. Stages are not just littered with Ampegs any more. Ashdown and Markbass are everywhere. Would be good to have them too.

I don’t mind the marshals, but my favourite of them is the L6 modded version of the 2203.

The Darkglass B7K model is still awful though. Nothing like the real thing. I keep thinking about selling my B3K but if I need that sound I plug the pedal in instead.

WiresDreamDisasters

Just a note to myself as I listen to the new stuff..... this is what I used when we tracked the new album, which I need to start making presets for!!

....

Noise gate (very rarely used, and only to tame fret noise and minimize potential for feedback)
Volume pedal (swells)
Expression pedal (for controlling delay oscillations, tremolo speed, and pitch whammy effects)
535Q Wah
Compressor (tapping parts)
Compressor (ebow parts to make the huge bridge position squeals more manageable)
Pitch Whammy (30%-ish mix with the dry signal, heel == root and toe == 5th up - slowly morphed to create a siren)
Octave down (POG-ish pitch effect to thicken up riffs at the end of Machinations)
Tremolo (pattern tremolo, but will use a square-tremolo with expression control over the rate - sounds better)
Phaser (slow phase 90 type sound - used a lot in the past, but only used once in Truth Escapes on the new album)
Some sort of nasty ass oscillation fuzz (Helix Xenomorph does this amazingly well)
A milder fuzz which I used for some lead lines in combination with the wah pedal
TS style boost (for Postsynaptic heavy palm mute riffs)
Boss Tera Echo (don't know how to replace this one with Helix - can live without)
Reverse delay
Digital delay
Analog delay
Oscillation delay (parallel path with Adriatic Delay being EQ'd and compressed, and run through another 1/8th BBD delay)
Hall reverb
Large space-filling plate or hall reverb (for tapping during intro of Postsynaptic)
Huge 100% wet supernaturalish reverb
Reverse-ish reverb (for clean solo in Apocryphal, I originally used the NONLINEAR mode on the BigSky)
EQ (last in the chain, used to boost brightness and cut around 125hz a small amount)
SOS Looper (I used the Volante to write the guitars for Presynaptic, and that whole song would need a rethink for live performance)

Teetonetal

I still use mine everyday. It’s just so flexible, easy to use and to my ears sounds very good.

with modeling I’ve never cared if something sounds accurate to the model or not, I just want it to be a sound i like and I can use. helix delivers.

I really wonder how line 6 will find an angle to replace it.

TTBZ

lysander said:

I wish they’d redo the Marshalls, most of them sound nothing like a good one should, it’s like they modelled the muddiest bright cap- less Marshalls they could find

Yeah the Marshall sounds in it are terrible compared to the real thing imo, they just don't sound like them at all. I found the Placater Dirty the best thing for anything Marshally, even at lower gain it works pretty well.

They've finally fixed the rat so it no longer sounds like it's stuck through a cocked wah, so hopefully that means they're open to re-doing the stuff they got wrong.

IntoTheRough

Good point about the Marshalls, I'd never considered that but I definitely don't use those models too much.

For those recording digitally, I've found the Kuassa "AMPLIFIKATION CALIBURN" to be absolutely fantastic. Fond memories of my JCM 900 when using it

rossyamaha

TTBZ said:

lysander said:

I wish they’d redo the Marshalls, most of them sound nothing like a good one should, it’s like they modelled the muddiest bright cap- less Marshalls they could find

Yeah the Marshall sounds in it are terrible compared to the real thing imo, they just don't sound like them at all. I found the Placater Dirty the best thing for anything Marshally, even at lower gain it works pretty well.

They've finally fixed the rat so it no longer sounds like it's stuck through a cocked wah, so hopefully that means they're open to re-doing the stuff they got wrong.

So just to this and the other comments about the Marshalls, can anyone elaborate? In what way do they not sound like Marshalls? What are you comparing them to? At what settings? What cab etc. For me they definitely do the Marshall thing but obviously they are all different. Are you coming from real world experience or from a recorded reference point? 

I do want to point out that this is in no way a "dig". I'm working a lot with customers and live streams at the moment so if I'm dialing things in wrong I need to make sure I fix that so people don't think I'm bullshitting my way through it. Well, I do mostly but you know. ;-)

Cirrus

rossyamaha said:

TTBZ said:

lysander said:

I wish they’d redo the Marshalls, most of them sound nothing like a good one should, it’s like they modelled the muddiest bright cap- less Marshalls they could find

Yeah the Marshall sounds in it are terrible compared to the real thing imo, they just don't sound like them at all. I found the Placater Dirty the best thing for anything Marshally, even at lower gain it works pretty well.

They've finally fixed the rat so it no longer sounds like it's stuck through a cocked wah, so hopefully that means they're open to re-doing the stuff they got wrong.

So just to this and the other comments about the Marshalls, can anyone elaborate? In what way do they not sound like Marshalls? What are you comparing them to? At what settings? What cab etc. For me they definitely do the Marshall thing but obviously they are all different. Are you coming from real world experience or from a recorded reference point? 

I do want to point out that this is in no way a "dig". I'm working a lot with customers and live streams at the moment so if I'm dialing things in wrong I need to make sure I fix that so people don't think I'm bullshitting my way through it. Well, I do mostly but you know. ;-)

I think with the Marshalls, in general the model blocks are quieter than the other amp types - even with Channel volume and Master on 10, they don't give the same signal level as most of the fenders, Voxy stuff, or other higher gainers and this might put them at an unfair disadvantage.

However, even being consciously aware of that, and having tried to like the JCM800 model, I struggle with it and usually go for something else when I want that sound - the BE-100 is a go to. The JCM lacks some of the low end punch/ aggressive upper mid snarl I think the real thing has, and it might just be my own failing but I've never found a way to dial that in.

Bidley

Teetonetal said:

I really wonder how line 6 will find an angle to replace it.

The only thing I can think of would be capture tech, a touchscreen and more DSP (obviously). So basically a Helix 1.5.

rossyamaha

Cirrus said:

rossyamaha said:

TTBZ said:

lysander said:

I wish they’d redo the Marshalls, most of them sound nothing like a good one should, it’s like they modelled the muddiest bright cap- less Marshalls they could find

Yeah the Marshall sounds in it are terrible compared to the real thing imo, they just don't sound like them at all. I found the Placater Dirty the best thing for anything Marshally, even at lower gain it works pretty well.

They've finally fixed the rat so it no longer sounds like it's stuck through a cocked wah, so hopefully that means they're open to re-doing the stuff they got wrong.

So just to this and the other comments about the Marshalls, can anyone elaborate? In what way do they not sound like Marshalls? What are you comparing them to? At what settings? What cab etc. For me they definitely do the Marshall thing but obviously they are all different. Are you coming from real world experience or from a recorded reference point? 

I do want to point out that this is in no way a "dig". I'm working a lot with customers and live streams at the moment so if I'm dialing things in wrong I need to make sure I fix that so people don't think I'm bullshitting my way through it. Well, I do mostly but you know. ;-)

I think with the Marshalls, in general the model blocks are quieter than the other amp types - even with Channel volume and Master on 10, they don't give the same signal level as most of the fenders, Voxy stuff, or other higher gainers and this might put them at an unfair disadvantage.

However, even being consciously aware of that, and having tried to like the JCM800 model, I struggle with it and usually go for something else when I want that sound - the BE-100 is a go to. The JCM lacks some of the low end punch/ aggressive upper mid snarl I think the real thing has, and it might just be my own failing but I've never found a way to dial that in.

I get the volume thing. Obviously that really comes down to levelling stuff out.

Tone wise, something to bear in mind. The JCM we have (and obviously modelled) is a 2204. If thats what you have and are comparing it too, remember the variables like valves, swapped caps etc. If you are comparing it to a 2210 or almost any other JCM, it won;t sound the same. There were a few variations of the 800. They are all different. Same model, very different amps. 

lysander

@rossyamaha thanks for checking in !
I'm comparing with various real Marshalls or clones which I have or had, namely DSL100, SuperLead, JVM,  Origin 20 with the preamp modded to hot rodded JCM 800 specs, as well as the Origin Revival Drive and the Hot Rod edition, Weebho JCM drive, and with other amp sims, all run into the same IRs ( I have one or two I use on everything, manly an OwnHammer 212 WOOD V30V Mid Gain )
For me the Helix models are missing the aggression and upper mid range bite, which I mostly attribute to the lack of bright caps in the reference amps used for modelling.
All of the other examples above are very bright and tend to need taming down, whereas the Helix ones tend to be quite dark and mushy.
On Helix, putting a high pass filter in the chain before the amps gets closer but it's not quite the same and of course doesn't respond to the guitar volume in the same way. 

rossyamaha

lysander said:

@rossyamaha thanks for checking in !
I'm comparing with various real Marshalls or clones which I have or had, namely DSL100, SuperLead, JVM,  Origin 20 with the preamp modded to hot rodded JCM 800 specs, as well as the Origin Revival Drive and the Hot Rod edition, Weebho JCM drive, and with other amp sims, all run into the same IRs ( I have one or two I use on everything, manly an OwnHammer 212 WOOD V30V Mid Gain )
For me the Helix models are missing the aggression and upper mid range bite, which I mostly attribute to the lack of bright caps in the reference amps used for modelling.
All of the other examples above are very bright and tend to need taming down, whereas the Helix ones tend to be quite dark and mushy.
On Helix, putting a high pass filter in the chain before the amps gets closer but it's not quite the same and of course doesn't respond to the guitar volume in the same way. 

OK cool. So here's my take on that. 

I have the DSL100 here. It's got it's own thing going on for sure. That's actually more like a BE100 than anything else. If the Superlead you have is a modern one, it will absolutely sound different. Even if it's a handwired one. Again the JVM has it's own thing almost regardless of the mode you're in. Great amp though. The Origin modded to 800 specs comes back to the earlier comment, which 800? 

I agree the 800 just pulled up with the default settings is a tad dark. Having just tried it, here's what you can do without really needing to change the eq much. Set the Sag, hum and ripple to zero and crank the bias and bias x to 10. For the plexi, remember the master volume is on 10 so that's a SLP on 10! It will be dark. Turn the bass down and treble and presence up. That tightens everything and gives it the cut back. Or, you can bring the master down and turn the drive up. 

If you've tried that kind of stuff already and it's not working, maybe just swap out the cab. It can make a huge difference. I'll say what I say to everyone. If you plug into a "real" amp and it doesn't sound right you change things. With modelling you just have a few more things you can change. 

With that said, if the BE model does what you want, you can also use that. ;-)

guitargeek62

Bidley said:

Teetonetal said:

I really wonder how line 6 will find an angle to replace it.

The only thing I can think of would be capture tech, a touchscreen and more DSP (obviously). So basically a Helix 1.5.

On-board PSU for additional pedals would be a nice touch too. It wouldn't need to be anything complex, and might help if you've only got one or two eccentric pedals to add that aren't already in the HX library.

I could see an onboard wireless system being an option too, though it's an unnecessary markup if you've already got a system of your own.

fretmeister

guitargeek62 said:

Bidley said:

Teetonetal said:

I really wonder how line 6 will find an angle to replace it.

The only thing I can think of would be capture tech, a touchscreen and more DSP (obviously). So basically a Helix 1.5.

On-board PSU for additional pedals would be a nice touch too. It wouldn't need to be anything complex, and might help if you've only got one or two eccentric pedals to add that aren't already in the HX library.

I could see an onboard wireless system being an option too, though it's an unnecessary markup if you've already got a system of your own.

They already went through why onboard wireless won't happen. Far too fiddly for different places with different available frequencies and a cheap on board wireless system is nowhere near what would be used on big stages, so it's just added cost that won't be used in a pro bit of kit.


The last big Metallica rig rundown has a few minutes on their wireless problems on big stages - how to balance multiple aerials and endless wifi signals etc.

It was racks of stuff and the receiver units were all over the stage and about the size of a tower PC case.

guitargeek62

fretmeister said:

guitargeek62 said:

Bidley said:

Teetonetal said:

I really wonder how line 6 will find an angle to replace it.

The only thing I can think of would be capture tech, a touchscreen and more DSP (obviously). So basically a Helix 1.5.

On-board PSU for additional pedals would be a nice touch too. It wouldn't need to be anything complex, and might help if you've only got one or two eccentric pedals to add that aren't already in the HX library.

I could see an onboard wireless system being an option too, though it's an unnecessary markup if you've already got a system of your own.

They already went through why onboard wireless won't happen. Far too fiddly for different places with different available frequencies and a cheap on board wireless system is nowhere near what would be used on big stages, so it's just added cost that won't be used in a pro bit of kit.


The last big Metallica rig rundown has a few minutes on their wireless problems on big stages - how to balance multiple aerials and endless wifi signals etc.

It was racks of stuff and the receiver units were all over the stage and about the size of a tower PC case.

Yeah I'm not surprised tbh, personally I see that kind of onboard tech as a pure fad and simply more to go wrong!

TTBZ

rossyamaha said:

So just to this and the other comments about the Marshalls, can anyone elaborate? In what way do they not sound like Marshalls? What are you comparing them to? At what settings? What cab etc. For me they definitely do the Marshall thing but obviously they are all different. Are you coming from real world experience or from a recorded reference point? 

I do want to point out that this is in no way a "dig". I'm working a lot with customers and live streams at the moment so if I'm dialing things in wrong I need to make sure I fix that so people don't think I'm bullshitting my way through it. Well, I do mostly but you know. ;-)

I only play Marshall amps, I've played pretty much all of the models at volume quite a bit and own a Mini Jubilee, so that's my point of reference. They just don't do that dirty upper middy "snarl" or bark thing that the real ones do, and they're quite compressed sounding/feeling. To be fair some of that compression can be dialed out by using a lower master volume setting but I feel like the voicing is just a bit off and it's like they're almost too refined/not ragged enough. I'm sure they could be dialled in with EQs etc to get it there but I also think if you can't plug into a Marshall through a Greenback cab/IR and instantly get "the sound of rock" then something's not quite right in the model - the real ones don't need strange/unconventional settings like the master volume super low etc.

As I said I was able to get most of what I wanted with the Placater in the end but I think I would have had an easier time if the 2204 or Plexi were a bit more true to the real amps that I'm used to. And to give it the benefit of the doubt I haven't owned a Stomp/tried Native since the 3.1 oversampling update. Hopefully will be able to pick one up again soon!

WiresDreamDisasters

At a certain point all the user can really say is, "I like X, and I don't like Y" and they might not even know why. To me, the Marshalls on the Helix don't really sound anything like my JVM on any of the modes. That's why I tend to go for other amps for the high-gain Marshall sound.

lysander

Thanks for the suggestion @rossyamaha. I agree some of these things help but still think the voicing is not quite right.
And I indeed don't expect them to sound exactly like the hardware but it should be closer still IMO, there's a certain DNA common to all the ones I mentioned that's missing in he Helix models, to my ears.
For comparison I can open STL AmpHub or Mercurial Spark and the various models sound right out of the box without any tweaking outside of standard controls.

Jota

Funny that, until a month or so ago, I was using the Litigator for my clean/dirt/lead presets and it was sounding too dark on the cleans with my SG (P90s).
I found the Plexi model sounds brighter and I prefer the rawness of the drive sounds so that's what I'm using and loving it. 

Bod

I'm new to the Helix but I can't get enough of the US Double Nrm with a Compulsive Drive in front.

TTBZ

rossyamaha said:

With that said, if the BE model does what you want, you can also use that. ;-)

Yeah I'm just being picky! With a plugin like Mercuriall Spark you can load up the 800 and it sounds just as you'd expect with no mucking about. When I last had a Native trial with a bit of tweaking I did manage to get the Placater model sounding very close to a JCM800 DI track I have (taken from a neve rndi between head & cab), being able to a/b them in the daw made the process much easier but it wasn't plug and play like Spark which nails it straight away.

Saying all that I used a horizontal input JCM800 at practice last night and it was cack