The Rugby Union Thread

tbm

koneguitarist said:

tbm said:

Priestland was really poor. Biggar has to start v France. POM was outstanding today. That's three good performances on the bounce from Ireland. Hasn't happened in years. Schmidt deserves massive credit for his game plan today.

But what is the point of Hook, there is only so long you can sit on bench.

Very poor tactically by Gatland in all respects.

There didn't seem to be a willingness to change things even when things were not going well. Wales looked a little bereft. Maybe hook could have sparked something. Just saw the Williams elbow into Jackson's head at the end there. Surely he'll be cited.

koneguitarist

I think Williams momentum took him into Jackson, but pretty innocuous really. Was surprised at Healy hitting Warburton in eye area at scrum though ?

VimFuego

good result, never gonna be a pretty match but to score tries in those conditions is very good to see. Clearly there is no pleasure to be taken from going to Scotland and beating them in a such convincing fashion...

tbm

koneguitarist said:

I think Williams momentum took him into Jackson, but pretty innocuous really. Was surprised at Healy hitting Warburton in eye area at scrum though ?

Nah it was a cheap shot, after Jackson grounded the ball he led with his elbow. Williams has form in this regard also. I was wondering what Kearney was so agro about. It's pretty blatant.

http://www.thescore.ie/paddy-jackson-try-ireland-1306615-Feb2014/

So who would you drop Koney? Warbs was poor, I'd have Tips in. I know you'd have James in anyway. Any other changes? 

bertie

koneguitarist said:

I think Williams momentum took him into Jackson, but pretty innocuous really.  

it was "avoidable" momentum, and he clearly raised his knee.  Stupidity/frustration  more than over malicious to be kind

My boy May did well - apart from that last pass  -     and again, someone please teach Youngs to throw in !!! 

I thought Lawes was immense..........

Forward or not (debatable) the Vunipola off-load was sublime

Farrell needs a slap too, for that silly push on Cusiter.. early night and no supper

Gassage

A few unsung heros today- Lawes and Wood particularly.

The difference in gainline was astonishing. Scotland hardly made a yeard all day; verytime England hit the tackle line they made 2 or 3m behind it- on days and decks like that it makes the difference.

Garces abdicated the scrum reffing- wise considering the pitch!

Good performance, though 2 tries short of where we should be with 68% possession.

digitalscream

Given the pitch, I'm just glad we came away with a win and no major injuries...especially with the way the Scots were scrummaging.

Hopefully it's finally proven the point that Youngs simply shouldn't be on the pitch. We might have got at least one more try if he hadn't butchered the line outs the way he did.

Good to see Jonny May doing his Jason Robinson thing, though. Mike Brown was at his unassuming best, too - always where he needed to be, and always beating that first tackle.

EDIT: By the way, I think a special mention needs to go to Danny Care for that beautifully cheeky drop goal. It was a work of art

bertie

nice to beat the scotch at murrayfield, in those conditions (that usually mean we loose) and play a reasonable game to boot.  Good job we dont have to rely on Farrell's kicking.................

Just need to wait for the Magscuses now.............  

johnnyurq

No excuses can be given we were sheeeit.

Maybe we should field the Aberdonian Morris Dancer team instead. I shit thee not either they do have such a thing over that way.

Gassage

digitalscream said:

Given the pitch, I'm just glad we came away with a win and no major injuries...especially with the way the Scots were scrummaging.

Hopefully it's finally proven the point that Youngs simply shouldn't be on the pitch. We might have got at least one more try if he hadn't butchered the line outs the way he did.

Good to see Jonny May doing his Jason Robinson thing, though. Mike Brown was at his unassuming best, too - always where he needed to be, and always beating that first tackle.

EDIT: By the way, I think a special mention needs to go to Danny Care for that beautifully cheeky drop goal. It was a work of art

What do you mean re the way Scotland were scrummaging?

digitalscream

Gassage said:

What do you mean re the way Scotland were scrummaging?

There's nothing specific, it just seemed to me that they were wilfully collapsing, making it hard for our props to bind, standing up in the front row and shoving before the instruction. On a surface like Murrayfield in those conditions, that's dangerous play for little gain.

Gassage

Oh OK. I think there's 2 things here. Alisdair Dickenson is the worst international prop ever seen. Secondly, Low was engaging everytime with his feet too far back.

And, obviously, it's a nightmare for everyone in that situation, Garces included, who chose to ignore infrinements (prob cos of underfoot which is fair) although for my money we should have had at least 3 pens for the Scots scrum popping on the TH or Hooker.

I know Lanny will not be happy with 20 points from near on 70% possession.

EDIT: Mike Brown unassuming? Are you having a laugh? He's as chippy as they come. (his arrogance is actually one of his strengths!)

koneguitarist

Well my thoughts after a very long day, started at 7:30 and finished at 1:30 this morning. Too old for long days and gigs !

Wales were strangely ineffective in almost all aspects of play, Gatland is partly at risk by picking players not suited to the game against Ireland. For example Paul James should have played instead of Gethin Jenkins to put pressure on Mike Ross. Sam Warburton did the best he could but I wonder if there is mixed feelings regarding his central contract, as he seemed to be working far harder than some of the forwards and I think at times Lydiate was harshly dealt with compared to similar offences by the Irish back row.

Line out has always been Wales biggest failing since the 70's, and it's strange to me that a coach of Gatlands experience should not have sorted it by now.

I was thinking about how wound up some of the Irish players were going to be but it was Phillips who seemed most out of control and should have been replaced much earlier. But I think bench options was not there, again Gatland and Wales problem.

Gatlands persistence of Playing Priestland despite his confidence issues must have a negative effect on Hook and Biggar, the two form no 10's.

Ireland was clinical, played a very simple game and just executed things so well compared toa lack lustre Wales. The Welsh failings were so deep right across the park, that I wonder if the contract issue between Regions and WRU are affecting players more than is let on. If so then Wales are seriously in danger of losing the rest of their games unless something radical is done immediately. 

As for Scottish game, England were just better everywhere, but were not exactly covering themselves with glory. I like Brown he should have been on Lions tour, but England so far have shown nothing to worry Ireland or anyone else to be honest, if the real Welsh team turn up to play then we should compete fairly well with good chance of winning, if the Welsh team of yesterday turns up, god help us. 

bertie

koneguitarist said:

Welsh team turn up to play then we should compete fairly well with good chance of winning, if the Welsh team of yesterday turns up, god help us. 

you have to look at the game Ireland played,  a single game plan - pure and simple. Not the normal Irish play, but completely designed to snub out Wales, and it was pretty much 100% effective (which for the Welsh, is worrying, surely that they couldnt change theirs ?!?!) I think if Wales had got a score, or at least "competed" in the first 1/4  it could have been a whole different game ?? 

I missed the first minutes,  so why was the tit in 23 on so early, who was injured ?

Wales and England suffer the same problem, of not seeming able to change a game plan, if #1 isnt working....... I agree they were farfrom sepctacular..........!!   but I think England did pretty well,  in conditions that traditionally suit Scottish play..............had Farrel's kicks gone over it would have been a 30 pointer........

Gassage

Liam Williams inclusion really hurt Wales- he was out of defensive position so many times - 5 or 6? Huge gains for Ireland.

Gassage

koneguitarist

Gassage said:

Liam Williams inclusion really hurt Wales- he was out of defensive position so many times - 5 or 6? Huge gains for Ireland.

Liam Williams is a full back, not a winger, I like him as a full back, but let's be honest Sexton had an armchair ride so was able to take time and pinpoint his kicks. When Brown was on wing for England he was often caught out of position same as most players not in their usual position.

Bertie what I was on about with England is the weather was bad for both teams, but Scotland's biggest problem was not being able to score, which i don't think was just down to England's defence but more down to their attacking ability. 

Gassage, surprised at you ! Funny but surprised.

tbm

Irish and Welsh fans are so alike in that it's a feast or a famine, things are great or they couldn't be worse. Warrenball is extremely effective a lot of the time and makes great use of the Welsh players talents. Yesterday they were out thought and it maybe signposted to other teams how to beat Wales. At the same time Gatland et al now no where there's a weakness and can plan to negate it. If he fails to do this then the team are in trouble. He's a smart guy though.

Have seen a few comments from Welsh fans and journos about how Ireland played without ambition, or played negatively. Total rot. I've said it already, I was surprised they kicked so much ball away, it's not the type of play you associate with Schmidt teams (Clermont, Leinster). Gatland said it himself, Ireland kicked the leather off the ball. But it worked because it was kicked in to space and had D'arcy and the rest hairing after it. I'll put my house on Ireland putting more ball through the hands against other teams and in different conditions. Schmidt himself said that it was a tactic for the weather they were expecting.

Overall I'm very satisfied. If we get our first choice wings back we could be in the hunt at the end. England game will be huge, as if it wasn't already. Save for the 'hey, let's try Tom Court at tight head' debacle of a few years ago we've a decent recent record at Twickers. Still think England have the best pack in the 6N though.

Gassage

@koneguitarist It was on a mate of mine's twitter- couldn't resist...! made me chuckle.

Agreed re Brown and Williams.

Sexton's armchair ride was down to the amount of space D'arcy gave him. The Darse was superb- really helped Ireland's offload issues from previous game. I don't like Warbs and Lydiate in the same backrow. Too samey. You needed a counterpoint there, maybe Warby to 6 and Tips at 7.

Re England's defence- it was huge. We're mixing blitz and drift these days. Scotland never ended up over the gain. We made 2 yds every time. On that surface, that was a huge difference.

koneguitarist

Gassage said:

@koneguitarist It was on a mate of mine's twitter- couldn't resist...! made me chuckle.

Agreed re Brown and Williams.

Sexton's armchair ride was down to the amount of space D'arcy gave him. The Darse was superb- really helped Ireland's offload issues from previous game. I don't like Warbs and Lydiate in the same backrow. Too samey. You needed a counterpoint there, maybe Warby to 6 and Tips at 7.

Re England's defence- it was huge. We're mixing blitz and drift these days. Scotland never ended up over the gain. We made 2 yds every time. On that surface, that was a huge difference.

Agreed with Lydiate and Warbs together, would prefer Lydiate and tips or Warbs and tips, as Tips links better with the backs like Martyn Williams used to do, much better footballing skills. Also not sure on Ryan Jones, if he will be back fit soon, as he is a really good impact player from the bench. 

Phillips was working hard yesterday, but his temperament worries me as does the speed of his pass, but Bisho are the options to replace him with? Same with Priestland, obviously not at his best, but again he was on back foot most of the game. 

Whoever we get at flyhalf, are they going to kick ball away aimlessly as that seems to be Gats style, we can't kick to touch as it's giving ball away, so it's better to keep ball in hand and allow George North and Cuthbert to do their stuff. 

Either way, big problems as we may have to go back to Biggar as Gats wants hook as cover for two or 3 positions instead of being best playmaker out there.