The Rugby Union Thread

koneguitarist

VimFuego said:

lol, I won that one.

What exactly is your problem ? I have said refs get it wrong at times, I have not said they only get it wrong with Wales, I watched all the games this weekend and last and stated what I thought, if you are saying I am wrong tell me why so we can discuss it as this is a discussion on RU. If you do not like my posts, fine, just ignore me.

Gassage

koneguitarist said:

Actually I have often said ref was good or bad , no matter what the teams are playing.

I thought the scrums last year was quite interesting, with Adam Jones winning his battle but Dan Cole winning his. Often the ref was on Adam Jones side when ball was put in, so ref gave it that way.

I also said such disturbing words that I thought the lions tour was too many Welsh and Irish and not enough English and Scottish, so hardly one eyed.

 

Refs can make or break a game depending on who and where they are reffing. Not just mistakes, but they can have a clear detrimental effect on a team.

I liked Wayne Barnes earlier in his career, but I feel after the amount of flak he took over France NZ game in 2007, his game went a bit, and he has struggled with his consistency.

Clancy is getting better, but again some of his decisions are baffling.

I wonder if Gassage knows which refs each countries prefer to avoid for their games ?

which tells a story !

I've a bit of an inside track on this; what I'd prefer to say is that England will look at how a ref interprets given situations and will work out a coping strategy. Now, as an example, I know that Stuart rates Walsh highly, but knows he has a feel for 'momentum' reffing, as seen in march @ Cardiff. Which is fine and understandable.

There are a few that have had very bad marks- Chris Pollock has been lambasted by a few coaches and Bryce Lawrence lost his IRB Elite status recently, rightly so.

As a further example, Poite will generally ping the first scrum offence, which will be an early engagement, which is a free kick. You know you'll get more FK's with Poite in charge (I rate him very highly). So the back row know they need to break and face very quickly as soon as thw whistle goes. Garces likes a competition in the scrum (he's a Basque after all!). Nigel got a lot of stick for length of scrums 2 yrs back so he's very impatient if you engage more than twice.

Rolly is a good ref but people feel he lets people slow it down at rucks, whereas Craig will ping the man holding on to either ball or tackle, but is less rigourous at side entry (Barnes is shit hot on rear feet and letting go of the tackled man).

Each are inherently good refs, but each have a different focus. Nigel and Walsh are the 2 best around at the moment IMO.

It's a shame both Jutge and Lewie had to retire through knees. Joel was well liked by all, and Lewie was the greatest character ever and players loved him.

Chris White is missed too.

EDIT: Brian Moore on Walsh: "A man never knowingly underphotographed'!!!! What a line!!

Gassage

BTW- I took advice from a mate of mine for you who is involved with IRB Elite ref dev. His view was this: (Glen Jackson is v much the great white hope BTW)

1. Barnes 2. Owens . 3 joubert 4. Walsh 5. Poite after that you have Clancy, garces, lacy, Rolland, pieper , pollock, plus a few others like Jackson, Fraser et al. Barnes is by far the most accurate Owens is inaccurate but is a media darling because of his management and who he is and in fairness, he has a great feel for the game.

scrumhalf

I can't agree with Walsh's elevated position. I've seen too many games where it seems to be that there are thirty payers incidentally trying to have a game of rugby during the Steve Walsh show.

Owens is probably the most even-handed of referees, if he's wrong it'll affect both sides and he won't ruin a game by being whistle-happy.

Who's the worst? I don't think he's been allowed anywhere near an international but I have seen matched ruined by Ray Maybank.

Gassage

scrumhalf said:

I can't agree with Walsh's elevated position. I've seen too many games where it seems to be that there are thirty payers incidentally trying to have a game of rugby during the Steve Walsh show.

Owens is probably the most even-handed of referees, if he's wrong it'll affect both sides and he won't ruin a game by being whistle-happy.

Who's the worst? I don't think he's been allowed anywhere near an international but I have seen matched ruined by Ray Maybank.

Bryce Lawrence until they slung him off. Now Pollock.

Walsh- tough one. He's technically v good and has a great feel, but gets a little excited.

Gassage

Just lastly, re refs, my favourite ever ref story....and it's supposed to be true.

Harlequins v Bath c. 1992, Ed Morrison reffing....

Huge rumpus at rucktime. Ed blows, warring factions disperse, and one Harlequins and England skipper, W D C Carling is under the ruck with huge rake marks all over him and blood gushing from his ear.

Morrison to the Bath players: "Right you lot, I want honestly. Who's responsible for rucking Carling?"

Peter Winterbottom (Harlequins flanker): "Ed, be fair to the Bath lads; it could have been any one of 29 of us!!"

Seemingly Morrison and the Bath lads pissed themselves!

koneguitarist

I liked Steve Walsh, not just for last year, before the "I told you so brigade" jump in, but he does defuse a situation when things are ready to erupt, and he does not take any crap no matter how high a profile.

Rolland however is awful, worst performance he ever had was England V NZ at Twickenham, a few years back. I think he yc'd 3 or 4 English players yet allowed McCaw to infringe at will, one was so blatant that Rolland and McCaw just laughed about it even as he gave the penalty.

Worst thing ever for refs was when Dickinson actually yc'd a NZ prop against Italy. Paddy Obrien publicly castigated Dickinson in the press and offered an apology to NZ for the poor reffing display. 

That then set the seal for refs to stop penalising NZ with the result that the average yellow card to penalty ratio went from single figures up to forty something. 

Now thank god Obrien has gone after NZ was handed RWC on a plate.

Fretwired

I has tickets to see England vs Wales at Twickers ... should be a good day out.

scrumhalf

The version of the Morrison story I heard was that after Winterbottom said "29" Morrison said "30".

fretmeister

Dan Cole is out for the rest. Arse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26221035

tbm

Good news for us. Cole is a class act.

koneguitarist

That is bad news for England, however they still have a number of tight heads who can still do a good job.

I do think this is a good opportunity for England to get some valuable experience before RWC for the younger guys like Thomas. 

But cole will be missed in the loose. 

bertie

koneguitarist said:

That is bad news for England, however they still have a number of tight heads who can still do a good job.

shame they're all injured               and David Wilson wasnt exactly "cruising"  at Sandy Park over the week-end

But you're right about the younger guys - 

Tho we might have a decent centre for RWC..........http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26221864

scrumhalf

A decent centre? How? He's never played the game professionally.

bertie

scrumhalf said:

A decent centre? How? He's never played the game professionally.

ye nay sayers said the same of Jason Robinson......................  then again  we also thought Farrell Snr was going to be a savior 

joneve

36? He seems to be settling in nice-ish from what I can tell. Might be my cherry and white tinted specs though  

bertie

Im still not 100% convinced........... he just seems to be 'trying too hard'    maybe because I had high (er)  expectations........

I think once Manu comes back, and we see how they work together.................

joneve

bertie said:

Im still not 100% convinced........... he just seems to be 'trying too hard'    maybe because I had high (er)  expectations........

I think once Manu comes back, and we see how they work together.................

I agree with both points to be honest. He's been good, but a few mistakes which generally come from over thinking and trying too hard to make an impression instead of just playing his normal game that he does for Gloucester. Like I said, I'm probably bigging him up a bit because I want him to succeed, so I'm not looking at his game from a totally unbiased angle.

Jonny May impressed me a lot more last weekend - making something out of nothing more than a few times, on a horrible pitch too. Shame he didn't get more of a game against the CESM's. Hopefully he's done enough to continue to get the nod to start this weekend as he seems to be settling down now and can do some real damage if he gets a bit of space. 

bertie

I think May's been one of the brighter performers of all of em - certainly deserves to keep his place.

Back to 36,  its not the glaring mistakes per se,  I think he's passed that now -  its just he seems to be making "not the right decision"  over compensating or forcing a pass when he doesnt need to....perhaps its Farrell,  maybe he's used to a bit more time 

joneve

bertie said:

I think May's been one of the brighter performers of all of em - certainly deserves to keep his place.

Back to 36,  its not the glaring mistakes per se,  I think he's passed that now -  its just he seems to be making "not the right decision"  over compensating or forcing a pass when he doesnt need to....perhaps its Farrell,  maybe he's used to a bit more time 

Yea, that's a fair assessment. Like you say, it might be that he's used to more time at club level. I think it's probably over thinking that's causing him to not make the right decision and if he just plays rugby, it will "click" because I see him making the right decisions and not trying to force the stuff he has been at international level every week in a Gloucester shirt. 

Made up for Jonny to be honest. Hopefully the playing surface at Twickers will be its usual quality and he'll properly be able to turn on the burners against the Oirish this week.