The Rugby Union Thread

koneguitarist

Farrell is a guy that is just easy to hate. 

His lack of self awareness when dealing with refs is sickening. He was being all sarcastic to Maynall over yellow staying a yellow for an accidental head collision was pissing everyone I know off and certainly plenty on social media. 

guitars4you

elstoof said:

I can’t comment on his character off the pitch obviously, and I don’t agree with booing him for being picked. As a player I think he’s quite limited and not englands best 10 even on his best day. His distribution is one dimensional, he’s not a great ball carrier, defensively he’s a liability - particularly when he sees red, which happens regularly - just watch any one of the anti-highlight reels on YouTube. He can kick reliably enough though. I can’t understand why every match day XV is built around getting him on the pitch, anywhere, doesn’t matter so long as he’s there.

All the talk in his defence revolves around what a great leader he is and what he does behind the scenes, that may be true but where exactly has he led the team? Whatever’s going on in training doesn’t seem to be doing any good on match day, the team played better when he was banned. That’s probably more damning than any comment I can make on his playing abilities imo. Perhaps his eagerness to “step up” is what’s allowing others on the team to shy away from any responsibilities themselves

Kind of where I am with it - It is his lack of flair/distribution/ideas that gets me - He is all to predictable IMO - I like a #10 who can run with the ball - Create gaps with the ball in his hand or without it - Can play the predictable game as required - But can open up a defence as/when required - Always asks questions of the opposition 

My brother is a big fan of Andy F - I recall going back to the last WC (2019) and we were chatting about AF and B Barrett and I said I'd have him everyday over AF - He said if you had to take a penalty kick, with 1 min to go, to win the match you'd pick AF - I replied if B Barrett was at #10 (as he was then) that you would not need to worry about needing that penalty to win, you'd have already clinched the match way before then 

Didn't we have such questions many years ago with Rob Andrew v Stuart Barnes 

fretmeister

Nobody is questioning his desire. And I think booing him for a selection made by someone else is very poor.

But he's just not the man for the job anymore, and he's now only picked because he's captain. Borthwick is in a tight spot. He can't change captain in the middle of the RWC but he should be brave enough to not select Faz - just like when the AB's had the balls to bench Cane.

Offset

Gassage said:

elstoof said:

What’s your take on the “leadership group” claims by Cipriani?

That if he launched his own wine range the vintage would be spoiled by the acerbic fruit.

He's an absolute flake of a player who wasn't near to good enough in attitude, fitness or commitment.

Strange... Josh Lewsey always got on well with him.

Rocker

English sports fans are sometimes hard to understand. England are in the RWC semi-final yet the criticism of the team selection continues unabated. Owen Farrell has not let the side down yet as you are still in the competition. The players around him know what he is likely to do in any given situation, replacing him could disrupt the team dynamic even if the replacement player is ‘better’ than him. 

In football Harry Maguire has been criticised by nearly everyone, yet he continues to perform at a high level. 

It would be interesting if the teams were picked by fans on social media. But a lot of sports fans fail to understand how a team is selected and why certain players get picked ahead of more in form players. This is why we have international managers, they pick the players to play the game as the manager prefers the team to play. Rather than criticising the team selection, why not enjoy the experience. The England team could be like most of the teams that played in the RWC - at home by now. 

crunchman

Rocker said:

English sports fans are sometimes hard to understand. England are in the RWC semi-final yet the criticism of the team selection continues unabated. Owen Farrell has not let the side down yet as you are still in the competition. The players around him know what he is likely to do in any given situation, replacing him could disrupt the team dynamic even if the replacement player is ‘better’ than him. 

In football Harry Maguire has been criticised by nearly everyone, yet he continues to perform at a high level. 

It would be interesting if the teams were picked by fans on social media. But a lot of sports fans fail to understand how a team is selected and why certain players get picked ahead of more in form players. This is why we have international managers, they pick the players to play the game as the manager prefers the team to play. Rather than criticising the team selection, why not enjoy the experience. The England team could be like most of the teams that played in the RWC - at home by now. 

If we had been in the other half of the draw, we almost certainly would have been home by now.

We are in the semis more by luck than judgement.  We had an easy group, and then played the weakest remaining team in the quarter finals.

 In Rugby, there are 4 teams that look head and shoulders above the others.  England have avoided those 4 teams so far.  The football is a bit different because there are far more top level countries that are competitive.  You can't reach a semi-final without beating someone good somewhere along the way.

elstoof

I’d like nothing more than to enjoy the experience of watching england, but the last few years of the same old approach to rugby has tempered that somewhat. Top teams don’t scrape wins against Samoa and Fiji and claim the performance was magnificent, borthwick has been even more conservative than Jones and the team’s gone backwards in the last 4 years with the same players making up the squad again and again. If we stick with the fly half debate, sure, playing another 10 might disrupt the team, but we’ve actually seen what would happen with the first two matches where Farrell was banned. It was obvious what was going to happen once the ban was lifted, the 10-12 partnership which plays to neither players strength given another dust off, followed by dropping Ford for the safe shoulders of Farrell. It’s all just as dull and predictable as their training ground set piece plays

Pjon

crunchman said:

 In Rugby, there are 4 teams that look head and shoulders above the others.  England have avoided those 4 teams so far.  .

And will avoid any of the big teams until the final, where the result could well be influenced a random injury, by a ref's interpretation or by food poisoning.

England look like a 3rd place team to me, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them winning the competition. That would be an absolute travesty but we wouldn't hear the end of it for 20 years, while in the meantime Owen would become St Farrell and every English fan knew how fantastic he was in hindsight.  

fretmeister

Pjon said:

crunchman said:

 In Rugby, there are 4 teams that look head and shoulders above the others.  England have avoided those 4 teams so far.  .

And will avoid any of the big teams until the final, where the result could well be influenced a random injury, by a ref's interpretation or by food poisoning.

England look like a 3rd place team to me, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them winning the competition. That would be an absolute travesty but we wouldn't hear the end of it for 20 years, while in the meantime Owen would become St Farrell and every English fan knew how fantastic he was in hindsight.  

Not a chance.

He'd be just like Faf. Yes he won - but everyone still thinks he's a prick.

sev112

Pjon said:

crunchman said:

 In Rugby, there are 4 teams that look head and shoulders above the others.  England have avoided those 4 teams so far.  .

And will avoid any of the big teams until the final, where the result could well be influenced a random injury, by a ref's interpretation or by food poisoning.

England look like a 3rd place team to me, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them winning the competition. That would be an absolute travesty but we wouldn't hear the end of it for 20 years, while in the meantime Owen would become St Farrell and every English fan knew how fantastic he was in hindsight.  

I disagree

if any team doesn’t beat England in a WC final then they don’t deserve to be World Champions, no matter how they have played in the previous couple of years. 

This is why it is the World Cup, and not a league over several years.  It come down to man against man in the most pressure of situations .  This is what cups do and if you don’t step up you shouldn’t have been there, no matter how much moaning 

England have got a chance to win this because it is the SF and F if they get through but they have to beat SAf and NZ to do that - a very tough task.  But both those teams have been beaten already in this comp when they were under pressure, 

I promise you SAf are not taking this SF lightly

koneguitarist

The pools were fine, we had some fantastic games, and since then we have had two absolutely amazing games last weekend. The best team will win. 

ewal

Yes we've seen some fantastic games - it's like we've had three finals already. Hats off to NZ or SA if they've got the stamina both mentally and physically to do it.

Offset

fretmeister said:

Pjon said:

crunchman said:

 In Rugby, there are 4 teams that look head and shoulders above the others.  England have avoided those 4 teams so far.  .

And will avoid any of the big teams until the final, where the result could well be influenced a random injury, by a ref's interpretation or by food poisoning.

England look like a 3rd place team to me, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them winning the competition. That would be an absolute travesty but we wouldn't hear the end of it for 20 years, while in the meantime Owen would become St Farrell and every English fan knew how fantastic he was in hindsight.  

Not a chance.

He'd be just like Faf. Yes he won - but everyone still thinks he's a prick.

Do you reckon?!  I think that's a bit harsh.  I'm not a Farrell fan for several reasons, but I certainly don't think he's a prick.  Faf is an odd case - RSA mates of mine are not fans either but I think he's a good scrum half.  I don't understand the opprobrium that's sometimes heaped on him (aside from the shite hair)...

TJT1979

Agree, that’s harsh. I can’t stand Faf but accept he’s one of the best 9s in the world.  Farrell is not  in the same league IMO, in terms of prick factor. I think he’s disliked because he’s associated with a style of rugby which is not easy on the eye, but hasn’t had enough success to offset the lack of ‘glamour’… and also probably his constant selection even when he’s not on form. Any Eng fan who questions OF’s commitment, however, is not being fair. He has his faults but his selection over others is not his fault!

Whilst I’d love to be proven wrong, I reckon both Eng snd Arg are going to lose by 15-20 points. Eng are worse than 4 years ago, and SA are better. 

I reckon Farrell might be the best starting 10 on Sat, because defensively he’s more solid than Ford or Smith. When the game loosens up a bit Ford or Smith might gave a better chance to work some magic. Steward has to start at 15… we’ll get pummeled if not. 

Pjon

sev112 said:

Pjon said:

crunchman said:

 In Rugby, there are 4 teams that look head and shoulders above the others.  England have avoided those 4 teams so far.  .

And will avoid any of the big teams until the final, where the result could well be influenced a random injury, by a ref's interpretation or by food poisoning.

England look like a 3rd place team to me, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them winning the competition. That would be an absolute travesty but we wouldn't hear the end of it for 20 years, while in the meantime Owen would become St Farrell and every English fan knew how fantastic he was in hindsight.  

I disagree

if any team doesn’t beat England in a WC final then they don’t deserve to be World Champions, no matter how they have played in the previous couple of years. 

This is why it is the World Cup, and not a league over several years.  It come down to man against man in the most pressure of situations .  This is what cups do and if you don’t step up you shouldn’t have been there, no matter how much moaning 

England have got a chance to win this because it is the SF and F if they get through but they have to beat SAf and NZ to do that - a very tough task.  But both those teams have been beaten already in this comp when they were under pressure, 

I promise you SAf are not taking this SF lightly

Where's the embarrassed emoji?

I'd got it in my head that England were up against the Argentinians. I take back some of what I said! I still think they might win, but agree with what you said now that I'm not half asleep!  

He'll still become St Owen if they win, though.

crunchman

Pjon said:

He'll still become St Owen if they win, though.

If we win, it will probably be because someone has given him a taste of his own medicine, and knocked him into the middle of next week with a head to head tackle, and we are up against 14 men with Ford at fly half.

tbm

Couple of big calls in the pack there. Is there an attempt at a bomb squad type approach with Sinckler and Genge on the bench?

My current feeling is that if - and its a very big IF - England are there or thereabouts at halftime, thats a potentially very impactful bench. 

VimFuego

well, I think it's a bold and exciting selection from Borthers...

digitalscream

OK, well...let's look on the bright side - at least the extended Farrell-at-12 experiment's done with.

We're still completely buggered as soon as their wingers find a way through, though.

scrumhalf

I don't think that he will become St Owen if we win. Many rugby fans dislike him for his boorish behaviour and the fact that he has been made our captain despite one gigantic flaw in his game which can render him a liability.