The Rugby Union Thread

axisus

Gutting result to be so close, but so much better a tournament than I thought we'd have.

One cracking final lined up. Come on NZ!

koneguitarist

I’m axisus said:

Gutting result to be so close, but so much better a tournament than I thought we'd have.

One cracking final lined up. Come on NZ!

SA has had to play the best in some epic games and will be shattered, NZ have had a relatively easy tournament apart from Ireland game. 

Jalapeno

TJT1979 said:

Eng go out with heads held high. We were the better team for 60 mins. It all started going wrong in the scrum when Marler came off. Gutted!!

Still, compared to what I expected before the tournament (and before this match to be fair), we did really well. 

Cheering for NZ in the final!!!

This !  They boys done good, but outscrummaged for the last 15 mins sadly

VimFuego

koneguitarist said:

I’m axisus said:

Gutting result to be so close, but so much better a tournament than I thought we'd have.

One cracking final lined up. Come on NZ!

SA has had to play the best in some epic games and will be shattered, NZ have had a relatively easy tournament apart from Ireland game. 

that was my thinking. They got well blooded against Ireland, then little more than an opposed training session against Arg. SA will be battered and bruised after 2 insanely tough matches. But as I'm hoping for a NZ win, I care not.

p90fool

DrCornelius said:

theatreanchor said:

@DrCornelius I believe one requires a Doctorate to fully comprehend the rules of rugby. 

They mentioned yesterday that Sinkler got punished for turning his hips - that was a new one on me too !

To be fair his cha-cha-cha is fucking terrible. 

ewal

koneguitarist said:

I’m axisus said:

Gutting result to be so close, but so much better a tournament than I thought we'd have.

One cracking final lined up. Come on NZ!

SA has had to play the best in some epic games and will be shattered, NZ have had a relatively easy tournament apart from Ireland game. 

Yep - think it will be one game too many for SA.

TJT1979

DrCornelius said:

For the uninitiated (me) , it seems that the scrum nowadays is more about collapsing the other sides front row for a penalty and less about getting the ball out to the backs or keeping it in the pack and driving the opposition backwards. Has there been a rule change that had brought on this tactic as I don’t remember it when I played hooker at college 35 years ago

Yeah, the scrum has completely changed over the years. I reckon we should go back to actual scrummaging. Meaning the put-in has to be straight, for a start. 

DrCornelius

TJT1979 said:

DrCornelius said:

For the uninitiated (me) , it seems that the scrum nowadays is more about collapsing the other sides front row for a penalty and less about getting the ball out to the backs or keeping it in the pack and driving the opposition backwards. Has there been a rule change that had brought on this tactic as I don’t remember it when I played hooker at college 35 years ago

Yeah, the scrum has completely changed over the years. I reckon we should go back to actual scrummaging. Meaning the put-in has to be straight, for a start. 

Yep , I noticed that too - the line out similar in that you can now throw it to your own line within reason rather than down the centre 

pigface

Yep , I noticed that too - the line out similar in that you can now throw it to your own line within reason rather than down the centre 

Similar, perhaps, but in no way as blatant. Line-out throws not straight were penalised several times last night, but not a single scrum put-in. I was talking on the phone last night to my sister in the USA after the game. She had an American friend with her who asked me to answer a 'rules' matter in rugby, thus: why do they bother to have all these guys pushing and shoving when the side who puts the ball in always gets it? I tried to explain that the scrum-half is required to put the ball in straight so that there is at least a contest for the ball, but that this has not been enforced for years. Why? I don't know. It's a blight upon the game IMO.

Edit: sorry, should have left TJT1979's comment in too: "Yeah, the scrum has completely changed over the years. I reckon we should go back to actual scrummaging. Meaning the put-in has to be straight, for a start."

VimFuego

just to clarify the straight feed at the scrum rule. It's a matter of interpretation, they now interpret it as "the ball is to be fed straight, to the No 8's feet". Hope this helps.

tbm

koneguitarist said:

I’m axisus said:

Gutting result to be so close, but so much better a tournament than I thought we'd have.

One cracking final lined up. Come on NZ!

SA has had to play the best in some epic games and will be shattered, NZ have had a relatively easy tournament apart from Ireland game. 

Yeah, but annoyingly, SA seem to not know when they’re beaten. Play loose? They catch you. Play tight? They grind it out. The pricks. 

It’ll be a quality final, but probably not what the neutral, or indeed World Rugby, wanted. 

TJT1979

Lawes has announced retirement from internationals. I genuinely think he’s one of the greats. I don’t remember him having a bad game in an Eng shirt. 105 caps. 15 years for Eng. Cheers!!

tbm

TJT1979 said:

Lawes has announced retirement from internationals. I genuinely think he’s one of the greats. I don’t remember him having a bad game in an Eng shirt. 105 caps. 15 years for Eng. Cheers!!

Even when England were are their bullying, sneering best, it was impossible not to like him as a player. Think he would have made an excellent captain. 

Gassage

MaxA867 said:

crunchman said:

MaxA867 said:

fretmeister said:

I don’t care how good a ball carrier a prop is.
If they can’t prop, they shouldn’t be playing in that position.

I’m completely gutted. I’d rather have no hope than dashed hope.

Never a truer word spoken, Genge and Sinckler were never ever going to be able to compete with the SA props from the bench. 4 penalties given up to the scrum in the last 20 minutes! 

With hindsight, he should have given Marler and Cole an extra 8 to 10 minutes to try to take the sting out of the replacement SA front row.

The worry is that Cole is 36 and Marler is 33.  We need to find some young guys who are good.

We need more depth at Hooker as well.  It probably didn't help that George had to play the full 80.

Yeah totally agree. But it always felt like holding off the inevitable. I thought he clearly didn’t trust Billy or Theo Dan from the bench, which is totally understandable in hindsight given Billy’s awful showing. 

Absolutely spot on, I mean props generally don’t get really good until their early/mid 30’s so I’d not write Marler off yet, but it would be nice to see a few premiership teams valuing front row brute strength and dominance over all this open field/prop as a second playmaking pivot nonsense - It’s never going to win a world cup. 

Totally, massive Exeter fan here so gutted that Cowan Dickie was crocked for the tournament, he might have made a difference! Eddie has a lot to answer for though there though, never built depth at #2 

'Young props' is a bit of a curious one.

Test props mature late. There are none in Prem that are close to test level scrummaging under 30 right now.

Bevan Rodd has time on his side and will come good but his tight work not there yet. Same for Dan, who is too light at moment.

I know Joe is retiring after RWC, so the best option at 1 is Rapava Ruskin, and if I wereto back a TH it would be Joe Hayes.

Genge is an issue- he simply isn't a test scrummager.

VimFuego

I was kinda surprised to see Ruskin left out TBH (unless he's carrying an injury) seems to have the requisite core skills, plus good at the breakdown, in the loose etc. 

Gassage

VimFuego said:

I was kinda surprised to see Ruskin left out TBH (unless he's carrying an injury) seems to have the requisite core skills, plus good at the breakdown, in the loose etc. 

He is a very difficult person.

Also, SB wanted one 'running' prop and once Mak got broken, Rodd leapfrogged Val. It was between Joe and Val.

fretmeister

Gassage said:

MaxA867 said:

crunchman said:

MaxA867 said:

fretmeister said:

I don’t care how good a ball carrier a prop is.
If they can’t prop, they shouldn’t be playing in that position.

I’m completely gutted. I’d rather have no hope than dashed hope.

Never a truer word spoken, Genge and Sinckler were never ever going to be able to compete with the SA props from the bench. 4 penalties given up to the scrum in the last 20 minutes! 

With hindsight, he should have given Marler and Cole an extra 8 to 10 minutes to try to take the sting out of the replacement SA front row.

The worry is that Cole is 36 and Marler is 33.  We need to find some young guys who are good.

We need more depth at Hooker as well.  It probably didn't help that George had to play the full 80.

Yeah totally agree. But it always felt like holding off the inevitable. I thought he clearly didn’t trust Billy or Theo Dan from the bench, which is totally understandable in hindsight given Billy’s awful showing. 

Absolutely spot on, I mean props generally don’t get really good until their early/mid 30’s so I’d not write Marler off yet, but it would be nice to see a few premiership teams valuing front row brute strength and dominance over all this open field/prop as a second playmaking pivot nonsense - It’s never going to win a world cup. 

Totally, massive Exeter fan here so gutted that Cowan Dickie was crocked for the tournament, he might have made a difference! Eddie has a lot to answer for though there though, never built depth at #2 

'Young props' is a bit of a curious one.

Test props mature late. There are none in Prem that are close to test level scrummaging under 30 right now.

Bevan Rodd has time on his side and will come good but his tight work not there yet. Same for Dan, who is too light at moment.

I know Joe is retiring after RWC, so the best option at 1 is Rapava Ruskin, and if I wereto back a TH it would be Joe Hayes.

Genge is an issue- he simply isn't a test scrummager.

Genge would be a better choice at 8 instead of BV.

MaxA867

Gassage said:

MaxA867 said:

crunchman said:

MaxA867 said:

fretmeister said:

I don’t care how good a ball carrier a prop is.
If they can’t prop, they shouldn’t be playing in that position.

I’m completely gutted. I’d rather have no hope than dashed hope.

Never a truer word spoken, Genge and Sinckler were never ever going to be able to compete with the SA props from the bench. 4 penalties given up to the scrum in the last 20 minutes! 

With hindsight, he should have given Marler and Cole an extra 8 to 10 minutes to try to take the sting out of the replacement SA front row.

The worry is that Cole is 36 and Marler is 33.  We need to find some young guys who are good.

We need more depth at Hooker as well.  It probably didn't help that George had to play the full 80.

Yeah totally agree. But it always felt like holding off the inevitable. I thought he clearly didn’t trust Billy or Theo Dan from the bench, which is totally understandable in hindsight given Billy’s awful showing. 

Absolutely spot on, I mean props generally don’t get really good until their early/mid 30’s so I’d not write Marler off yet, but it would be nice to see a few premiership teams valuing front row brute strength and dominance over all this open field/prop as a second playmaking pivot nonsense - It’s never going to win a world cup. 

Totally, massive Exeter fan here so gutted that Cowan Dickie was crocked for the tournament, he might have made a difference! Eddie has a lot to answer for though there though, never built depth at #2 

'Young props' is a bit of a curious one.

Test props mature late. There are none in Prem that are close to test level scrummaging under 30 right now.

Bevan Rodd has time on his side and will come good but his tight work not there yet. Same for Dan, who is too light at moment.

I know Joe is retiring after RWC, so the best option at 1 is Rapava Ruskin, and if I wereto back a TH it would be Joe Hayes.

Genge is an issue- he simply isn't a test scrummager.

Yeah, absolutely agree, had high hopes for Will Stuart, Harry Williams, Paul Hill, Joe Heyes and others but none of them have kicked on, and seemingly in the case of Williams and Stuart seem to have regressed. VRR looks a proper prop though, I hope he gets a chance going forward! 

I guess so much of propping is experience of being shoved and folded in different ways that unless someone has once-in-a-generational strength like Andrew Sheridan or Ox Nche it just takes time to build up the required nous. 

I think the bigger question is why is the Premiership not preparing players for the grunt of high level test rugby? Despite a good showing at the weekend England are a mile off matching the intensity and physicality of SA/France/Ireland/NZ consistently, and the Prem clubs are nowhere near in Europe. If we’re honest it’s been this way for a while. 

Rocker

Premiership clubs only have self interest week in week out.  I doubt they even think about the international team….

MaxA867

Rocker said:

Premiership clubs only have self interest week in week out.  I doubt they even think about the international team

Yeah this is true, it’s a miracle the French system managed to get harmony between the club and national games after years of butting heads. So maybe it is possible!