Was it all really about immigration ?

Emp_Fab

I can't help thinking that a significant majority of the leave voters voted so primarily because of the immigration issue.  Britons have a reputation for not speaking their mind and being passive-aggressive and I postulate that the sizeable majority of leave voters would have been happy to stay in the EU if immigration had been seriously addressed.  Every time I've spoken to a 'leave' supporter over recent weeks, it pretty much always turns to immigration.  The problem is that a condition of EU membership is the freedom of all EU citizens to work and live wherever they desire in Europe - so you are never going to be able to control EU immigration as long as that condition remains.

I think it's a shame that, in all likelihood, the whole referendum has probably really been about those who are relaxed about loads of foreigners working here and those that think it's not right - but too cautious to say it out loud for fear of being branded racist, so claim it's actually about Brussels laws etc.

paulmapp8306

Nope.  Immigration and open boarders are completely different issues.  Some want less immigration its true - but most just wanted to control the numbers of, and the skills sets of those that do come in.

To me, there were 3 key issues.

1.  Open Boarders - a win for leave, mainly because the EU wouldnt negotiate on that when given the chance.

2.  Political control - win for leave, the EU would never give up control volunterily

3.  Economic - a win for stay.

2-1 and leave had it.  

paulmapp8306

I really think the rest of the EU - or there leaders are to blame for this.  Hers a facebook post with my thoughts:

Debate over, result in. As I reflect, I cant help but think the blame - or thanks (dependant on your POV) lies with the EU (or rather their leaders) themselves who took absolutely no notice of the thoughts and wishes of one of its major contributors. Instead it acted like a parent of a young adult might when they get frustrated by the rules placed upon them with the response "if you live under my roof, you follow my rules" rather than negotiating the rules to suit all. Just like many of those young adults we have now packed our bags and left home. We will face the same issues as that young adult The early years will be hard. We wont have the money to do all the things we want or buy all the things we want. We will be eating beans on toast in a damp bedsit while working towards our future. Ultimately though we will grow like that young adult, and have the potential to become a successful, wealthy, independent entity. We have to do this as one though - put the bickering aside, get together and work to that glorious possibility - or we just might end up as that junkie on the street corner.

lloyd

I think it was one of the big reasons. The vote was so close that any number of little things that could have tipped it either was though. Not to say every Leave guy is a racist who voted on immigration as that's clearly not true.

richardhomer

I think that a lot of voters who voted out were swayed by their (incorrect) perception that immigration could be controlled if we were outside of the EU.

The 'Out' campaigned stoked that particular fire very effectively and Remain avoided addressing it time and time again by constantly diverting the argument back to the economic benefits of staying. Which looked and sounded pretty disingenuous, even to me as a 'Remain' voter.

hobbio

I voted Leave and immigration didn't even come into it for me. I have a slight issue with benefits being paid out and being sent abroad, but that didn't influence my vote either.

I'm mainly against the ever closer integration and loss of national identity. I don't want to end up living in one of the United States of Europe.

I have no problem with Europe, but I do with the EU. We can still be friends with European countries. I have really close friends, we'd do anything for each other, but we don't want get married and live together until we die.

blueskunk

"Tek control ot borders"

Bidley

hobbio said:

I voted Leave and immigration didn't even come into it for me. I have a slight issue with benefits being paid out and being sent abroad, but that didn't influence my vote either.

I'm mainly against the ever closer integration and loss of national identity. I don't want to end up living in one of the United States of Europe.

I have no problem with Europe, but I do with the EU. We can still be friends with European countries. I have really close friends, we'd do anything for each other, but we don't want get married and live together until we die.

Exactly this.

RaymondLin

Some woman at work today says "it'll be fine, they might not go through with it (leaving the EU) anyway!!!"

She voted Leave.

Some people should not be allowed to vote.

Drew_TNBD

RaymondLin said:

Some woman at work today says "it'll be fine, they might not go through with it (leaving the EU) anyway!!!"

She voted Leave.

Some people should not be allowed to vote.

Willing to be that she's just saying that because she is surrounded by hostile people who want to tear into her.

Heartfeltdawn

Emp_Fab said:

I can't help thinking that a significant majority of the leave voters voted so primarily because of the immigration issue.  

The majority of the voters who spoke to me about their voting choice yesterday as they made their way out of my polling station had immigration down as the main issue of the election. As an election worker I had to be politically neutral so everything came from them rather than me encouraging things out. Around my area of Bristol (Fshponds), the people I've talked to in the local stores and Post Office, they've all talked about immigration when discussing the referendum, whether it's been some white Bristol born and bred types who thought there were too many foreigners over here, to the Uruguayans who own a damn good fish and chip shop locally who are nervous that their visa requirements will change in the future. 

After talking to some friends who were poll clerking and presiding officer'ing in other regions from Wiltshire to London to Birmingham, they're saying pretty much the same thing as me (as well as saying that the number of people whining about using a pencil to mark their ballot paper was infantile and asanine). 

Drew_TNBD

Heartfeltdawn said:

Emp_Fab said:

I can't help thinking that a significant majority of the leave voters voted so primarily because of the immigration issue.  

The majority of the voters who spoke to me about their voting choice yesterday as they made their way out of my polling station had immigration down as the main issue of the election. As an election worker I had to be politically neutral so everything came from them rather than me encouraging things out. Around my area of Bristol (Fshponds), the people I've talked to in the local stores and Post Office, they've all talked about immigration when discussing the referendum, whether it's been some white Bristol born and bred types who thought there were too many foreigners over here, to the Uruguayans who own a damn good fish and chip shop locally who are nervous that their visa requirements will change in the future. 

After talking to some friends who were poll clerking and presiding officer'ing in other regions from Wiltshire to London to Birmingham, they're saying pretty much the same thing as me (as well as saying that the number of people whining about using a pencil to mark their ballot paper was infantile and asanine). 

Out of interest guv, what were you doing there? I thought exit polls were not allowed?

octatonic

I don't think it was all about immigration for all people.

For some people though immigration was a big, big issue.

This was a binary question referendum that was not split along party lines.

For some people this was about punishing Cameron (they did it).

For some it was about sending a message to the 'establishment' (I dare say message received).

For some this seemed to be a case of rural and regional cities standing up and saying 'You forgot about us'.

The next two years will be interesting.

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

I don't think it was all about immigration for all people.

For some people though immigration was a big, big issue.

This was a binary question referendum that was not split along party lines.

For some people this was about punishing Cameron (they did it).

For some it was about sending a message to the 'establishment' (I dare say message received).

For some this seemed to be a case of rural and regional cities standing up and saying 'You forgot about us'.

The next two years will be interesting.

I'd tweak rural and regional cities to focus more on the working class towns of the Midlands and the North which have been declining for decades.

Whenever I go through largely White-British sections of my old town everyone looks sickly and pale and broken. I think our collective spirit has been smashed by decades of not being listened to.

RaymondLin

Drew_fx;1124285" said:

RaymondLin said:

Some woman at work today says "it'll be fine, they might not go through with it (leaving the EU) anyway!!!"



She voted Leave.



Some people should not be allowed to vote.

Willing to be that she's just saying that because she is surrounded by hostile people who want to tear into her.

She is surrounded by solicitors and contrary to popular belief, are not hostile, real life is not like court room drama and I didn't tell her she should've vote but am just gobsmacked at how ill informed some people are.

octatonic

Drew_fx said:

octatonic said:

I don't think it was all about immigration for all people.

For some people though immigration was a big, big issue.

This was a binary question referendum that was not split along party lines.

For some people this was about punishing Cameron (they did it).

For some it was about sending a message to the 'establishment' (I dare say message received).

For some this seemed to be a case of rural and regional cities standing up and saying 'You forgot about us'.

The next two years will be interesting.

I'd tweak rural and regional cities to focus more on the working class towns of the Midlands and the North which have been declining for decades.

Whenever I go through largely White-British sections of my old town everyone looks sickly and pale and broken. I think our collective spirit has been smashed by decades of not being listened to.

Yes, agree- basically any place not Scotland, NI or London.

Even here in West Oxfordshire, which is a pretty well off area (and Cameron's safe seat) it was 54/46.

Oxford city, about 5 miles away, was 70/30.

Ro_S

not all about immigration,  but immigration was certainly a major - if not the biggest - issue for many leave voters.

but it is not really possible to treat immigration as a separate issue.  it is interrelated with: housing supply/demand, and housing costs;  labour supply, keeping wages low, job competition and unemployment;  and pressures on public services.

ronnyb

Without getting into the argument that they do low paid jobs which British people won't do, it's interesting to note that the 2 highest polling areas for leave were Boston and South Holland, Lincolnshire, close to 75% for leave. There's been loads in the media about eastern European immigrants working in Agriculture there putting a strain on public services. 

Garthy

The turning point for many that I have spoken to was when Merkel invited all-comers to Europe, then told Austria, Hungary & Czech Republic how many refugees they will take, and she told them via a press conference.

DrJazzTap

I only know one leave voter, and he was voting because of immigration. And to make Britain great again?
I did say "but we don't even have a manufacturing industry anymore" he didn't even think of it like that.
He then said "Greenland voted out"..
I did say that was 30 years ago.
I'm glad he voted, I genuinely mean that. I'm just scared of what may follows. As nobody really knows.

capo4th

The things people wanted who voted leave are so far away on the horizon they are almost invisible.