Was it all really about immigration ?

richardhomer

Emp_Fab;1124595" said:

chillidoggy said:

Emp raises a good question. ....and did I get a Wiz from you ?

Give me my Wizzes !!!  I demand Wizzes !!

Just given you one (if you'll pardon the expression).

For no other reason than I wanted to introduce some levity....

Drew_TNBD

richardhomer said:

Emp_Fab;1124595" said:

chillidoggy said:

Emp raises a good question. ....and did I get a Wiz from you ?

Give me my Wizzes !!!  I demand Wizzes !!

Just given you one (if you'll pardon the expression).

For no other reason than I wanted to introduce some levity....

Aye, bow down to a wisdom terrorist! That'll bring the lev!

Emp_Fab

I quite like that...  'the wisdom terrorist'.  Has a certain ring to it!

Time for a new sig methinks.  Ta Drew :-)

Myranda

hobbio said:

I voted Leave and immigration didn't even come into it for me. I have a slight issue with benefits being paid out and being sent abroad, but that didn't influence my vote either.

I'm mainly against the ever closer integration and loss of national identity. I don't want to end up living in one of the United States of Europe.

I have no problem with Europe, but I do with the EU. We can still be friends with European countries. I have really close friends, we'd do anything for each other, but we don't want get married and live together until we die.

Have you been to the US? They've had 150 years of being a federation of states and you can still see cultural differences state to state, and they're all one country with one language... what possible changes did you foresee the EU making that would make 50 nations with different languages, cultures, styles, etc into one homogenised gloop? 

I really would like to know how you imagined the French would suddenly stop shrugging, the Italians would stop being loud and emotional or the Germans would stop liking sausage and beer with the application of rules from the EU... And to stop our national identity what rules do you suspect would stop Under-age-sex, Binge-drinking, casual-racism, football-violence, and eating-curry (the british Identity) given that laws banning much of those things hasn't actually changed us

dogload

Well I intend to begin re-affirmation of my British Identity by donning a bowler hat, waistcoat and neckerchief, practicing my proper British accent before striding out into the streets of Leave Town and abrading those pesky foreigners who staff our local Lidl, then returning home to tell my french partner of 16 years to 'sling 'er 'ook back to Frogland'.

Ahoy! little Engand.

Drew_TNBD

Myranda;1124929" said:

hobbio said:

I voted Leave and immigration didn't even come into it for me. I have a slight issue with benefits being paid out and being sent abroad, but that didn't influence my vote either.I'm mainly against the ever closer integration and loss of national identity. I don't want to end up living in one of the United States of Europe.I have no problem with Europe, but I do with the EU. We can still be friends with European countries. I have really close friends, we'd do anything for each other, but we don't want get married and live together until we die.Have you been to the US? They've had 150 years of being a federation of states and you can still see cultural differences state to state, and they're all one country with one language... what possible changes did you foresee the EU making that would make 50 nations with different languages, cultures, styles, etc into one homogenised gloop? 

I really would like to know how you imagined the French would suddenly stop shrugging, the Italians would stop being loud and emotional or the Germans would stop liking sausage and beer with the application of rules from the EU... And to stop our national identity what rules do you suspect would stop Under-age-sex, Binge-drinking, casual-racism, football-violence, and eating-curry (the british Identity) given that laws banning much of those things hasn't actually changed us

See... This post is almost the very definition of xenophobia!

Emp_Fab

...if you're on drugs.

UnclePsychosis

Here's a good example of the problem Leave have created for themselves.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

If it wasn't about immigration, a lot of their supporters think it was...

capo4th

This leave business is gonna hurt the leavers in their pockets I hope they are ready.

quarky

UnclePsychosis said:

Here's a good example of the problem Leave have created for themselves.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

If it wasn't about immigration, a lot of their supporters think it was...

"Leave" didn't create the problem. The Government had a referendum with two outcomes. They should have been responsible enough to have a plan for either possible outcome. Basic stuff.

EDIT: To take that step further, as the Government were "remain", remain created this problem

Chalky

quarky;1125453" said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Here's a good example of the problem Leave have created for themselves.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

If it wasn't about immigration, a lot of their supporters think it was...







"Leave" didn't create the problem. The Government had a referendum with two outcomes. They should have been responsible enough to have a plan for either possible outcome. Basic stuff.

Absolutely @quarky - politicians completely and ignorantly out of touch with half of the country's population. Politicians who believed their own bullshit, forgetting their first responsibility is to the electorate. And then utter shock at the outcome! As if reality got it wrong, not them.

Heartfeltdawn

Chalky said: Absolutely @quarky - politicians completely and ignorantly out of touch with half of the country's population. Politicians who believed their own bullshit, forgetting their first responsibility is to the electorate. And then utter shock at the outcome! As if reality got it wrong, not them.

Yes. And I wis'd you. Whether it's the more liberal Tories not understanding that a load of Leavers voted that way for immigraiton reasons or the Labour bunch not understand why some traditional Labour voters up North and in Wales went for Leave, there's a complete lack of understand. They spend all this cash on polls, forum groups, and campaigning but they don't do the obious: they don't sit down with these people, let them speak, and actually take in what they are saying. 

Chalky

As predicted, Merkel is saying "no need to be nasty". Far, far too much trade for Germany to lose. Her grasp of reality is impressive at a time when others are being emotional.

chrispy108

UnclePsychosis said:

Here's a good example of the problem Leave have created for themselves.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

If it wasn't about immigration, a lot of their supporters think it was...

It's a Twitter account with 432 followers. That isn't "Leave", it's a tiny group of people.

I don't see how labelling people helps.

UnclePsychosis

chrispy108;1125562" said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Here's a good example of the problem Leave have created for themselves.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

If it wasn't about immigration, a lot of their supporters think it was...





It's a Twitter account with 432 followers. That isn't "Leave", it's a tiny group of people.

I don't see how labelling people helps.

I'm not labelling anyone. But that is a local "leave" group. The kind of person who was out knocking doors and handing out leaflets.

Are people honestly trying to claim that immigration wasn't a massive vote winner for Leave? C'mon.

JezWynd

Immigration was an issue for me but only in so much as it allows employers to pay crap money with no union or contract protection. These workers then have to live in extremely cramped conditions with few rights as tenants etc. Another five or ten years of this and we would have created an underclass of serf labour which does no-one any favours.

Chalky

UnclePsychosis;1125618" said:

[quote="chrispy108;1125562"]UnclePsychosis said:

Here's a good example of the problem Leave have created for themselves.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireLeave/status/746496329925419009

If it wasn't about immigration, a lot of their supporters think it was...





It's a Twitter account with 432 followers. That isn't "Leave", it's a tiny group of people.

I don't see how labelling people helps.

I'm not labelling anyone. But that is a local "leave" group. The kind of person who was out knocking doors and handing out leaflets.

Are people honestly trying to claim that immigration wasn't a massive vote winner for Leave? C'mon.

[/quote]

Immigration was a vote winner, yes.. As was the desire for change, dislike of the EU, dislike of the Remain fear campaign, and simple faith in this country to build a better future for itself.

littlegreenman

For quite a few people I work with, immigration was their sole reason for voting Leave.

We'd have a reasonable and rational debate about the pro's and con's of both sides, but it always ended with "I get all that, but there's too many of them, we need to close our borders now".

They are now confused as to why we haven't already immediately started deporting "them".


 

UnclePsychosis

littlegreenman said:

For quite a few people I work with, immigration was their sole reason for voting Leave.

We'd have a reasonable and rational debate about the pro's and con's of both sides, but it always ended with "I get all that, but there's too many of them, we need to close our borders now".

They are now confused as to why we haven't already immediately started deporting "them".


 

Exactly. My worry is what these people turn to when they realise they've not been given what they thought they voted for. When people feel betrayed they're even angrier than they were before. Even if its a relatively small minority---10%, 15%, thats still millions of people. 

digitalscream

UnclePsychosis said:

littlegreenman said:

For quite a few people I work with, immigration was their sole reason for voting Leave.

We'd have a reasonable and rational debate about the pro's and con's of both sides, but it always ended with "I get all that, but there's too many of them, we need to close our borders now".

They are now confused as to why we haven't already immediately started deporting "them".

Exactly. My worry is what these people turn to when they realise they've not been given what they thought they voted for. When people feel betrayed they're even angrier than they were before. Even if its a relatively small minority---10%, 15%, thats still millions of people. 

It'll be a massive protest vote in four years' time, because nobody learns their lesson - and UKIP (or whoever's in their position by then) could well end up in control.

If that happens, I'm selling up and moving to the nearest non-UK, English-speaking country.