Was it all really about immigration ?

Drew_TNBD

cacophony said:

ronnyb said:

Without getting into the argument that they do low paid jobs which British people won't do, it's interesting to note that the 2 highest polling areas for leave were Boston and South Holland, Lincolnshire, close to 75% for leave. There's been loads in the media about eastern European immigrants working in Agriculture there putting a strain on public services. 

and the 5th biggest majority for the leave camp, was gt yarmouth, which is like downtown sarajevo/tirana. that's not coincidence. when people start to feel like `outsiders` in the towns in which they were born, they are going to hit out.

That is what a huge percentage of liberal-minded middle class people don't seem to understand.

For most people it isn't about money, but about culture. No-one likes to feel alone, or ousted from ostensibly their own homes.

octatonic

cacophony said:

ronnyb said:

Without getting into the argument that they do low paid jobs which British people won't do, it's interesting to note that the 2 highest polling areas for leave were Boston and South Holland, Lincolnshire, close to 75% for leave. There's been loads in the media about eastern European immigrants working in Agriculture there putting a strain on public services. 

and the 5th biggest majority for the leave camp, was gt yarmouth, which is like downtown sarajevo/tirana. that's not coincidence. when people start to feel like `outsiders` in the towns in which they were born, they are going to hit out.

and yet London, which is a huge multiracial melting pot, voted overwhelmingly to remain.

It isn't the only factor- education, income, opportunity all feeds into it.

I'm not judging the people of Gt Yarmouth, they feel they way they feel, but it isn't simply immigration because there are other areas with just as many migrants who voted differently.

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

cacophony said:

ronnyb said:

Without getting into the argument that they do low paid jobs which British people won't do, it's interesting to note that the 2 highest polling areas for leave were Boston and South Holland, Lincolnshire, close to 75% for leave. There's been loads in the media about eastern European immigrants working in Agriculture there putting a strain on public services. 

and the 5th biggest majority for the leave camp, was gt yarmouth, which is like downtown sarajevo/tirana. that's not coincidence. when people start to feel like `outsiders` in the towns in which they were born, they are going to hit out.

and yet London, which is a huge multiracial melting pot, voted overwhelmingly to remain.

But it's different in London. It's not so much as a melting pot as one big plate where the sausages are firmly dividing the starter and desert from the main meal.

capo4th

Exactly I have lived in London for 20 years there is a lot of hate from those small town folk. 

 I hope they are happy now with their New England. 

Troy

cacophony said:

ronnyb said:

Without getting into the argument that they do low paid jobs which British people won't do, it's interesting to note that the 2 highest polling areas for leave were Boston and South Holland, Lincolnshire, close to 75% for leave. There's been loads in the media about eastern European immigrants working in Agriculture there putting a strain on public services. 

and the 5th biggest majority for the leave camp, was gt yarmouth, which is like downtown sarajevo/tirana. that's not coincidence. when people start to feel like `outsiders` in the towns in which they were born, they are going to hit out.

Yarmouth is just up the road from me and it is a fun game to hear who speaks English. 

I've seen first hand what the EU done to our fishing industry.

octatonic

capo4th said:

Exactly I have lived in London for 20 years there is a lot of hate from those small town folk. 

 I hope they are happy now with their New England. 

It is what it is.

I'm just going to get on and make the best of it and make the best choices for ourselves with the cards that have been dealt.

But I have pulled the plug on a property we were intending to buy in Spain.

We were quite a way through the purchase process but with an UK and Australian passports I cannot be sure that, in a couple of years time, about what sort of access we will have to it.

I don't expect a whole lot of sympathy from anyone, of course.

digitalscream

You know...in trying to work out the one reason the result was Leave, you fall into exactly the same trap that got us there in the first place.

This isn't me being condescending, by the way - this is from talking to people in the street and watching my Facebook feed.

Anyway, the reason is that the majority of people on both sides simply focused on a single issue. It just came to be that more people coalesced around the Leave campaign's single issues than Remain.

The unfortunate part is that it's hugely likely that none of those people are going to get what they thought they were voting for. 

Immigration? Probably won't change much (certainly not enough to make a difference to people's lives). 

The NHS? Still fucked, probably more so given who's going to be in charge. 

Independence? It won't be the rainbows-and-unicorns future they were told it'd be. 

Having more money to spend on British people? Hahahaha...nope.

The reality is that when you only have two options and they're both trying to condense a phenomenally complex issue down to soundbites, almost nobody ends up getting what they want because they're all being sold a dumbed-down vision that both sides know will never come to pass.

EricTheWeary

Drew_fx said:

EricTheWeary said:

Drew_fx said:

EricTheWeary;1124408" said:

They had people from Prince's End on the local news. It's where I spent chunks of my childhood and very white working class. Previously a target area for the BNP and one for UKIP now. It was all about immigration for them. One of my admin staff at work told me she'd voted Leave because of the immigration issue. Couldn't quite bring myself to ask which way her Jamaican mother voted...

So someone mixed race can't be concerned about immigration? That's a bit racist Eric. I'll show my mixed race daughter this thread when she is old enough!

She can be and obviously is, just seemed a bit ironic. 

Nothing ironic about it. She is her own person and isn't tied to what her parents want or think.

Ironic in as much as that had her mother been stopped from immigrating to the UK she wouldn't have been born was all. It's a tiny point I'll admit. 

scrumhalf

Immigration isn't an all-or-nothing issue, despite the "racist" tag chucked about by some remainers with abandon.

We've always restricted entry to some countries on the basis of visas. Does that mean we were always racist?

Placidcasual79

Immigration was used as a Trojan horse by elitist profiteers to get past the flimsy restrictions imposed on the free market by the Union. Stirred into a state of confused patriotism, fear and loathing by scare mongers intent on hiding their true purpose, the public have mistakenly put the country in the hands of some reckless, self serving fools. 

Drew_TNBD

Placidcasual79 said:

Immigration was used as a Trojan horse by elitist profiteers to get past the flimsy restrictions imposed on the free market by the Union. Stirred into a state of confused patriotism, fear and loathing by scare mongers intent on hiding their true purpose, the public have mistakenly put the country in the hands of some reckless, self serving fools. 

9/11 Truther much?

Placidcasual79

Drew_fx said:

9/11 Truther much?

Whats one of them?

Drew_TNBD

It's like a less intelligent conspiracy theorist.

Placidcasual79

Drew_fx said:

It's like a less intelligent conspiracy theorist.

Lol - I can definitely get on board with the less intelligent bit! Unfortunately the EU stuff is not a conspiracy. 

marantz1300

I'm never surprised by the idiots who vote to fuck themselves, neither are the public school boy's who run the establishment.

People voted for cuts and austerity in the last election.

It was either have poverty and your arse fucked or Milliband's teeth.

Obviously no contest.

Steffo

It was really about the "have nots" wanting to change things and thinking that coming out of the EU would do that.

Reality check: you had fuck all before and it's not going to change, stop blaming immigrants and start looking at yourselves.

chillidoggy

These comments should be in the Remain Whingers thread.

capo4th

Steffo said:

It was really about the "have nots" wanting to change things and thinking that coming out of the EU would do that.

Reality check: you had fuck all before and it's not going to change, stop blaming immigrants and start looking at yourselves.

yes they were flying blind into the abyss.....

mike_l

My reasons for voting leave.

1, Euro politico's (elected AND unelected) having a say on the running of this country (including Scotland, Wales an NI). For example, the rivers need dredging, which will reduce (not eliminate) the flooding risk. 

2. The unfair money costs. I feel every country in the club should pay the same amount, and get the same out. Like you would in any club.

3. The level of unskilled immigration. There is enough labourers in this isle without needing any more arriving. There is also not enough trained and skilled workers either domestic or immigrated.

Realistically, short-term leaving might not be the best. But now there's other countries around Europe asking for In/Out referendums. Let them have the votes. When a couple more countries have voted to leave, and the EU has crumbled into nothingness. Maybe, just maybe there will be a EU that is fit for purpose

Edit.

Not to mention the Euro politico's with the agenda of looking after their own nation/nationals. Which, being fair each countries leaders should be doing as a priority. IE Merkel HAS to look after the interests of the German people/industry, otherwise she won't get re-elected. 

Also, anyone familiar with what happened through Europe in the last 100 years? Hitler, obviously..., Anyone familiar with what happened in the Balkans in the late 1990's? Where people were being tortured and murdered for coming from the "wrong" town/village? 

Emp_Fab

chillidoggy said:

Emp raises a good question. 

....and did I get a Wiz from you ?

Give me my Wizzes !!!  I demand Wizzes !!