Was it all really about immigration ?

johnnyurq

No and nor were leave voters all bigots and/or racists, but I think it may be true that all bigots/racists were leave voters and saldy that small minority got conflated such as to tar all with that.

However it for me (my opinion) it has shown the UK desires to be ever more right leaning and I think a lurch to the right is inevitable at least for a good while, maybe generations I don't know for sure. I would say insularity too is on the rise again UK wide but not necessarily based on bigoted or racist ideas. Clearly for some it is the case in all parts of the UK.

It does concern me as to the generational split specially as most wisdom points to those up to 35 ish had voted overwhelmingly to stay. Does this mean we are passing on a pig in a poke/poisoned chalice to our upcoming generations. Even worse is some of the reasons that have been given for doing so, if proven true of course, which to me doesn't seem to be handing off the place better than we found it so to speak.

Just my opinion before anyone gets all up in my grill lol.

Emp_Fab

I know I keep saying it, and I'm acutely aware that it makes me sound like a prize twat, but....  I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the public are morons.

Certified KnuckledraggingSunreadingheadscratchin'closetracistsoapwatchin'lottoplayin'Faragelovin'fagsmokin-Morons.

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

I know I keep saying it, and I'm acutely aware that it makes me sound like a prize twat, but....  I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the public are morons.

Certified KnuckledraggingSunreadingheadscratchin'closetracistsoapwatchin'lottoplayin'Faragelovin'fagsmokin-Morons.

See exhibit A:

Emp_Fab

...and them too.  (I can't think up another long pepsi-esque name for them, so 'arseholes' will have to do.)

Drew_TNBD

"wankers" is what I'd go for tbh.

Emp_Fab

Can we settle on "wankholes" then ?

Drew_TNBD

Yessir.

ToneControl

DrJazzTap said:

I only know one leave voter, and he was voting because of immigration. And to make Britain great again?
I did say "but we don't even have a manufacturing industry anymore" he didn't even think of it like that.
He then said "Greenland voted out"..
I did say that was 30 years ago.
I'm glad he voted, I genuinely mean that. I'm just scared of what may follows. As nobody really knows.

our largest export sector is manufactured engineering products

ToneControl

Drew_fx said:

cacophony said:

ronnyb said:

Without getting into the argument that they do low paid jobs which British people won't do, it's interesting to note that the 2 highest polling areas for leave were Boston and South Holland, Lincolnshire, close to 75% for leave. There's been loads in the media about eastern European immigrants working in Agriculture there putting a strain on public services. 

and the 5th biggest majority for the leave camp, was gt yarmouth, which is like downtown sarajevo/tirana. that's not coincidence. when people start to feel like `outsiders` in the towns in which they were born, they are going to hit out.

That is what a huge percentage of liberal-minded middle class people don't seem to understand.

For most people it isn't about money, but about culture. No-one likes to feel alone, or ousted from ostensibly their own homes.

As someone with degrees who is white and well off, I've noticed that many in a similar position to myself have always been very vocal in demonising poorer white people who are less keen on immigration, and who can't choose to live in the posh suburbs, but who live in urban areas where their daily lives have been dramatically changed by foreign cultures which have essentially been transplanted into their hometowns. Bradford is the most stunning example, where the transplanted culture is actually all from the same town, so it's as if a town has been teleported in.

For example, I understand that when I go to visit places like Levenshulme, Moss-side, Rusholme, Bradford, I will see a large amount of foreign cultures, all very interesting to me, I love travel, plan to visit India again, etc. However, I understand that I am essentially a tourist on a day trip, and am not affected by the issues generated in areas housing high numbers of immigrants. To be truthful, as as specific example, I moved out of the Manchester area I lived in once I had kids, partly because I saw that 50% of the kids in the local school arrive from families with English as a second language, and so I assumed that teachers would be struggling to remedy the language issues rather than having time for my kids. 

Therefore I am disgusted by the patronising comments you hear from well-off educated whites, criticising the white poor. For the rich, immigration means cheaper builders and plumbers, and cheap handwashes for the car. For the poor it directly affects their lives every day. Hardly surprising they would be more opposed to unlimited immigration 

Having said all that, if we fast forward, I think we can assume that EU migrants will assimilate more easily than people more visibly different, or with vastly different cultures/religions

ToneControl

Emp_Fab said:

I know I keep saying it, and I'm acutely aware that it makes me sound like a prize twat, but....  I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the public are morons.

Certified KnuckledraggingSunreadingheadscratchin'closetracistsoapwatchin'lottoplayin'Faragelovin'fagsmokin-Morons.

half the population have below average intelligence

;-)

chillidoggy

ToneControl said:

Emp_Fab said:

I know I keep saying it, and I'm acutely aware that it makes me sound like a prize twat, but....  I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the public are morons.

Certified KnuckledraggingSunreadingheadscratchin'closetracistsoapwatchin'lottoplayin'Faragelovin'fagsmokin-Morons.

half the population have below average intelligence

;-)

Not plugging at you Tone - I got the joke, but I'm getting really pissed off with the high-and-mighty 'the general public must be morons and intellectually sub-normal to me' shit from those here who seem to think only they have a brain, and can understand what is happening.

Pack it in.

WezV

if even half these things are true....

https://www.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/media_set?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3

ToneControl

chillidoggy said:

ToneControl said:

Emp_Fab said:

I know I keep saying it, and I'm acutely aware that it makes me sound like a prize twat, but....  I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the public are morons.

Certified KnuckledraggingSunreadingheadscratchin'closetracistsoapwatchin'lottoplayin'Faragelovin'fagsmokin-Morons.

half the population have below average intelligence

;-)

Not plugging at you Tone - I got the joke, but I'm getting really pissed off with the high-and-mighty 'the general public must be morons and intellectually sub-normal to me' shit from those here who seem to think only they have a brain, and can understand what is happening.

Pack it in.

that's what's annoyed me on my facey mc facebook, and it's mostly all my graduate friends slagging off non graduates for not being urbane or educated. We live in a democracy, and thick people get one vote each too, and their voices need to be heard too without being patronised and shut down by the more articulate. 

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

Therefore I am disgusted by the patronising comments you hear from well-off educated whites, criticising the white poor. For the rich, immigration means cheaper builders and plumbers, and cheap handwashes for the car. For the poor it directly affects their lives every day. Hardly surprising they would be more opposed to unlimited immigration 

Best thing you've ever written here. It's that simple. 

digitalscream

chillidoggy said:

ToneControl said:

Emp_Fab said:

I know I keep saying it, and I'm acutely aware that it makes me sound like a prize twat, but....  I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the public are morons.

Certified KnuckledraggingSunreadingheadscratchin'closetracistsoapwatchin'lottoplayin'Faragelovin'fagsmokin-Morons.

half the population have below average intelligence

;-)

Not plugging at you Tone - I got the joke, but I'm getting really pissed off with the high-and-mighty 'the general public must be morons and intellectually sub-normal to me' shit from those here who seem to think only they have a brain, and can understand what is happening.

Pack it in.

To be honest, I actually agree in that the public (myself and everybody else here included) are woefully inadequately-educated on this particular subject. There are maybe a few hundred people in the UK who might be knowledgeable enough to make a considered choice on this (and we can pretty much guarantee that none of them use Facebook or The Fretboard), which is why I'm 100% convinced this should never have been left to the public; we have elected representatives for a reason.

Exactly the same reason I'd trust architects to design me a building rather than a random 10 people I stopped in the street; opinions can be valid as just that, but they shouldn't be trusted as a guide for action unless they're backed up by in-depth knowledge of the subject at hand.

chillidoggy

digitalscream said:

chillidoggy said:

ToneControl said:

Emp_Fab said:

I know I keep saying it, and I'm acutely aware that it makes me sound like a prize twat, but....  I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the public are morons.

Certified KnuckledraggingSunreadingheadscratchin'closetracistsoapwatchin'lottoplayin'Faragelovin'fagsmokin-Morons.

half the population have below average intelligence

;-)

Not plugging at you Tone - I got the joke, but I'm getting really pissed off with the high-and-mighty 'the general public must be morons and intellectually sub-normal to me' shit from those here who seem to think only they have a brain, and can understand what is happening.

Pack it in.

To be honest, I actually agree in that the public (myself and everybody else here included) are woefully inadequately-educated on this particular subject. There are maybe a few hundred people in the UK who might be knowledgeable enough to make a considered choice on this (and we can pretty much guarantee that none of them use Facebook or The Fretboard), which is why I'm 100% convinced this should never have been left to the public; we have elected representatives for a reason.

Exactly the same reason I'd trust architects to design me a building rather than a random 10 people I stopped in the street; opinions can be valid as just that, but they shouldn't be trusted as a guide for action unless they're backed up by in-depth knowledge of the subject at hand.

To be clear, I never said anything about people being uninformed. That's a completely different matter.

It's the constant barrage from the Remain camp insulting other people's intelligence that's my gripe. And sadly it appears on this forum as well as others. 

Drew_TNBD

Allister Campbell just made a good point on the BBC - Boris and Gove never wanted to leave the EU. They wanted to get a 49/51 result to Cameron, and use it as an excuse to get him out.

octatonic

Drew_fx said:

Allister Campbell just made a good point on the BBC - Boris and Gove never wanted to leave the EU. They wanted to get a 49/51 result to Cameron, and use it as an excuse to get him out.

Yes, heard this from several people.

The funereal victory speech indicated they weren't quite prepared for what happened too.

marantz1300

The leave campaign just seeked out the racists.....and it worked.

johnnyurq

Drew_fx said:

Allister Campbell just made a good point on the BBC - Boris and Gove never wanted to leave the EU. They wanted to get a 49/51 result to Cameron, and use it as an excuse to get him out.

A terrible miscalculation if true, they all seem to think that the UK is their plaything, and I include pretty much all of the main instigators left and right in that.