does Sturgeon want us to use lottery money to rebuild Hadrian's wall?

capo4th

She could use the lottery money to treat herself to a trip to a good hair salon.

ewal

Do any politicians have decent haircuts?

johnnyurq

holnrew said:

johnnyurq;1127103" said:

holnrew said:

Does anybody realise Hadrians Wall ends in Wallsend (it's how it gets its name) by Newcastle?





Was down for work there and a place called Haltwhistle (hopefully spelled right) and had a wee sojourn out to the wall, very interestong for me as I am very interested in history. Bloody bleak on a shitty day though.

Only been through it on the train, lovely station though.

It was a lovely wee place @holnrew and very picture postcard. Lovely friendly folks too and very welcoming.

chillidoggy

OK, which one of you lot fancies Nichola Sturgeon?

Chalky

ICBM;1128753" said:

Chalky said:She doesn't seem to realise she is burning her credibility.





With who?




RandallFlagg said:refusing to accept a democratic decision in a referendum she endorsed





You may be able to prove me wrong but I'm certain she did not endorse the EU referendum either.

ICBM;1128753" said:

Chalky said:She doesn't seem to realise she is burning her credibility.





With who?




RandallFlagg said:refusing to accept a democratic decision in a referendum she endorsed





You may be able to prove me wrong if I've somehow missed something, but I'm certain she did not endorse the EU referendum either.

I know you are a great fan of hers, but she is making big noises on things that are not in her gift. Take her pronouncement on "safeguarding Scotland's place in the EU" - how can she do that? By what mechanisms or acts? The application process for the EU doesn't allow for Scotland to apply until it is independent and demonstrates it meets the criteria. Until independence she can expect 'words of friendship' from the EU but nothing binding. The EU at this time is highly unlikely to change its application process as I think it needs all signatories to do so. Ergo, the word "safeguard" is meaningless and her use of it damages her credibility.

ICBM

Chalky said:

I know you are a great fan of hers, but she is making big noises on things that are not in her gift. Take her pronouncement on "safeguarding Scotland's place in the EU" - how can she do that? By what mechanisms or acts? The application process for the EU doesn't allow for Scotland to apply until it is independent and demonstrates it meets the criteria. Until independence she can expect 'words of friendship' from the EU but nothing binding. The EU at this time is highly unlikely to change its application process as I think it needs all signatories to do so. Ergo, the word "safeguard" is meaningless and her use of it damages her credibility.

I'm not unaware that one of her faults as a politician is a tendency to get a bit ahead of herself, and that it can annoy her opponents as much as it pleases her supporters.

As for the rest, we're in completely uncharted waters, and the fact that some of the EU leaders are willing to talk to her and have spoken at least slightly positively so far indicates it's not all as set in stone as you seem to assume. There's a historical precedent too - Denmark and Greenland. It's possible for one nation to comprise autonomous areas that are inside and outside the EU. Complicated, and it does depend on the final status of the UK as a whole, but not impossible.

As for her credibility, with the Scots and the Europeans she seems to be doing well. She's not even doing badly with sections of the English media. She's the only one who seems to have much of a plan at the moment, and I don't think this result was as unexpected to her as it seems to have been to the Leave campaign, which says a lot.

Evilmags

She has lost her majority in the parliament, which limits her ability to an extent though, and suggests that the SNP has peaked (She is deeply unpopular among the Edinburgh and Aberdeen well off in a way Alec Salmond never was). Her overspending will likely lead to tears later down the road as well. (Why she thinks the EU would give Scotland bettr terms on a bail out than the UK I have no idea) 

ewal

Stirring stuff from Alyn Smith too.

ewal

All these experts on Scottish politics all of a sudden - I'm really touched that you care so much!! 

RandallFlagg

I thought her speech today in Scottish Parliament was much much better, calm and considered. She should stick to that tone instead of tweeting insults. All things considered I find it hard to envisage a future where Scotland leave UK and rejoin EU afterwards, I think as the dust settles and EU leaders come to the table with sensible trade arrangements then it may be better in the long run for Scotland to remain in a UK outside of EU. As soon as the Westminster government outlines a robust position and plan for exit then markets will recover and confidence will build. I can see a stronger UK rising from this, with increased investment from abroad, a stronger pound and bouyant markets, exposing the fragility of the EU. I would imagine Sturgeon would want to be part of that.

Chalky

RandallFlagg;1130357" said:

I thought her speech today in Scottish Parliament was much much better, calm and considered.



She should stick to that tone instead of tweeting insults.



All things considered I find it hard to envisage a future where Scotland leave UK and rejoin EU afterwards, I think as the dust settles and EU leaders come to the table with sensible trade arrangements then it may be better in the long run for Scotland to remain in a UK outside of EU.



As soon as the Westminster government outlines a robust position and plan for exit then markets will recover and confidence will build.



I can see a stronger UK rising from this, with increased investment from abroad, a stronger pound and bouyant markets, exposing the fragility of the EU. I would imagine Sturgeon would want to be part of that.

Imagine the situation in 18 months time. Imagine the UK is struggling through the two year negotiations. Why do people imagine the EU will be a bastion of stability? It may well be pulling apart at the seams with Hollande gone and Merkel on her way.

RandallFlagg

I agree, the concern at the moment is on the UK and the decision it has taken, I think we will bounce back quickly and it's the EU that will be exposed as at serious risk, as you say, a couple of changes to EU heads of state and things could look very different for the Brussel sprouts currently running the EU circus

UnclePsychosis

Evilmags;1130037" said:

She has lost her majority in the parliament, which limits her ability to an extent though, and suggests that the SNP has peaked (She is deeply unpopular among the Edinburgh and Aberdeen well off in a way Alec Salmond never was).

I live and work (in a large white collar workplace) in central Edinburgh and this is just fundamentally untrue. Salmond is detested by those people. Sturgeon seems to be more on the level of "don't like her politics, but she's alright apart from that".

She's way less divisive than he ever was.

Chalky

ICBM;1129360" said:

Chalky said:I know you are a great fan of hers, but she is making big noises on things that are not in her gift. Take her pronouncement on "safeguarding Scotland's place in the EU" - how can she do that? By what mechanisms or acts? The application process for the EU doesn't allow for Scotland to apply until it is independent and demonstrates it meets the criteria. Until independence she can expect 'words of friendship' from the EU but nothing binding. The EU at this time is highly unlikely to change its application process as I think it needs all signatories to do so. Ergo, the word "safeguard" is meaningless and her use of it damages her credibility.





I'm not unaware that one of her faults as a politician is a tendency to get a bit ahead of herself, and that it can annoy her opponents as much as it pleases her supporters.

As for the rest, we're in completely uncharted waters, and the fact that some of the EU leaders are willing to talk to her and have spoken at least slightly positively so far indicates it's not all as set in stone as you seem to assume. There's a historical precedent too - Denmark and Greenland. It's possible for one nation to comprise autonomous areas that are inside and outside the EU. Complicated, and it does depend on the final status of the UK as a whole, but not impossible.

As for her credibility, with the Scots and the Europeans she seems to be doing well. She's not even doing badly with sections of the English media. She's the only one who seems to have much of a plan at the moment, and I don't think this result was as unexpected to her as it seems to have been to the Leave campaign, which says a lot.

I think its not only set in stone but also unwanted. BBC says

"The French president and Spanish prime minister have both said they are opposed to the EU negotiating potential membership for Scotland."

As I said, she is burning her credibility.

ICBM

Chalky said:

As I said, she is burning her credibility.

And I'll ask again - with who?

Check what's happened to support for a second independence referendum and support for a yes vote in one. Both of these things would have been rejected according to polls before the EU referendum. Now both would pass.

You might think so, but unless I'm much mistaken you aren't in Scotland.

Chalky

I explained before about her misleading claim to "safeguard Scotland's place in the EU". It is simply not within her gift and now the French and Spanish leaders are against what she is promising the people of Scotland. If you make promises that you know you cannot keep you damage your credibility.

Or are you happy for her to claim she can do things that are not within her gift? Are you happy for her to mislead the people she represents in this way?

ICBM

Chalky said:

I explained before about her misleading claim to "safeguard Scotland's place in the EU". It is simply not within her gift and now the French and Spanish leaders are against what she is promising the people of Scotland. If you make promises that you know you cannot keep you damage your credibility.

Or are you happy for her to claim she can do things that are not within her gift? Are you happy for her to mislead the people she represents in this way?

I'm not certain what's going to happen and I'm quite sure you aren't. The EU leaders have been happy to meet with her, so clearly she has "credibility" with them too. I think their opinion matters a bit more than ours.

The simple reason none of this is set in stone is because no-one yet knows when the UK is going to leave the EU - or even if it is - and whether that would be before or after any potential independence referendum. Given the way things are going it's not impossible Scotland could be independent first.

ToneControl

would RUK continue to accept migrant workers from Scotland?

ewal

Chalky you come across as being obsessed with semantics. How long are you going to hold her use of the word "safeguard" against her? How is she losing credibility? She has clearly expressed her intentions, and stated she will go about it to the best of her ability. If only our other leaders were as down to earth and honest.

Regarding the response from Spain and France - not surprising. However she has clearly founf some allies too.

Chalky

ewal;1132129" said:

Chalky you come across as being obsessed with semantics. How long are you going to hold her use of the word "safeguard" against her? How is she losing credibility? She has clearly expressed her intentions, and stated she will go about it to the best of her ability. If only our other leaders were as down to earth and honest.

Regarding the response from Spain and France - not surprising. However she has clearly founf some allies too.

Your description is spot on. And I understand how much she is liked. In that respect, she is truly successful.

What concerns me is something that I think Bill Clinton said along the lines of "If they like you, they'll believe almost anything you say".

But I take your point that she is stating intentions.