So, 4 days on, were Remain scaremongering or not?

Bucket

paulmapp8306 said:

errr yes.  If they had all voted and lost then no.  Should have got off their arses away from their PS4s and X Box's and voted.

Excuse me. I voted (to remain), the majority of my friends voted (to remain), we're pissed off about the result.

I don't understand why only 38% of people my age turned up either. But really, that kind of stereotyping helps precisely no-one.

ICBM

siremoon said:

I also see that the odd crack is starting to appear in the EU position.  Both the Polish and Czech governments have called on Juncker to resign.

Rightly. He's at least partly responsible for this whole mess by his arrogant, condescending statements towards the UK.

exocet

Heartfeltdawn said:

paulmapp8306 said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Can you blame them for being pissed off? 

errr yes.  If they had all voted and lost then no.  Should have got off their arses away from their PS4s and X Box's and voted.

Mmmm. Stereotyping. Cosy and comforting. 

We've known for years that the "young" don't vote. Its a more general problem with political engagement. Many don't vote because to them "it makes no difference". This is a corollary of the "first past the post" electoral system.

I maintain that the "every vote counts" nature of a referendum has caught people out i.e. "My vote does count".

If we had something like this within our general political system (some kind of PR) then perhaps the engagement would increase? I'm quite aware that PR brings with it many other challenges

Fatfingers

@KJDowd, didn't the racists always have a voice, just like anyone else who is eligible to vote?

Yes, but it had become a rather ashamed whisper. I fear now that a vocal minority feel they have a mandate to shout about these opinions and make the UK an uncomfortable place to live for some people.

Exactly this. Again, in the gym changing room last night, an older guy said to me that he'd voted to leave 'because the coloured family down the street have left a broken-down car outside his house for the last month.'

I must admit to being so naive I didn't even realise people used the term 'coloured" any more, let alone judged people by the colour of their skin. Later on, on the tele, there was a British born lad of Pakistani descent complaining about all the Poles moving into 'his area.'

You couldn't make it up.

Troy

Bucket said:

paulmapp8306 said:

errr yes.  If they had all voted and lost then no.  Should have got off their arses away from their PS4s and X Box's and voted.

Excuse me. I voted (to remain), the majority of my friends voted (to remain), we're pissed off about the result.

I don't understand why only 38% of people my age turned up either. But really, that kind of stereotyping helps precisely no-one.

Well i voted leave but some of you on here have stereotyped me as an uneducated unemployed racist.

p90fool

Drew_fx;1131011" said:

Some proper fucking cunts on this forum.

Serious point Drew, why so glum? You won on Thursday, it's what you've been arguing for for months.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'd really like an insight into why so many rational, carefully considered "out" voters like you seem so depressed, to the point of talking about emigration.

kjdowd

Fatfingers;1131309" said:

@KJDowd, didn't the racists always have a voice, just like anyone else who is eligible to vote?




Yes, but it had become a rather ashamed whisper. I fear now that a vocal minority feel they have a mandate to shout about these opinions and make the UK an uncomfortable place to live for some people.





Exactly this. Again, in the gym changing room last night, an older guy said to me that he'd voted to leave 'because the coloured family down the street have left a broken-down car outside his house for the last month.'

I must admit to being so naive I didn't even realise people used the term 'coloured" any more, let alone judged people by the colour of their skin. Later on, on the tele, there was a British born lad of Pakistani descent complaining about all the Poles moving into 'his area.'

You couldn't make it up.

I did begin to wonder last night whether there is a sense of broader culpability, though, in that I tend to live in my own little bubble of people who think like me and prefer to ignore this sort of thing. Perhaps the current situation is the outcome of that attitude or way of living.

Then again, the other side of me thinks why should I be reponsible for other people's petty minded attitudes?

Handsome_Chris

Bucket said:

paulmapp8306 said:

errr yes.  If they had all voted and lost then no.  Should have got off their arses away from their PS4s and X Box's and voted.

Excuse me. I voted (to remain), the majority of my friends voted (to remain), we're pissed off about the result.

I don't understand why only 38% of people my age turned up either. But really, that kind of stereotyping helps precisely no-one.

@bucket, to put it very simply, and as nauseating as it is, 62% of people your age thought that there was something better to do than ensure that they had a vote and keep the United Kingdom in the European Union.

suspiciousminds

I voted out and i'll stick by it.
I 100% agree with nato and the original trading concept of the Common market but not at all what its become.
Farage was out of order yesterday but so was the likes of Merkle and co in the way they they have spoken out since the result.
I think we're in for a short term terbulant ride but lets face it its not been a bed of roses over the past few years either.
I think the referendum was the right thing to do, Cameron shouldnt have sided with remain or brexit but offered the country true facts about being in or out rather than allowing politicians within parties to divide.
He called the referendum and it stinks the way hes walked away.
Why should we be chastised just because we dont want to be part of an organisation that has evolved into something that it was never intended to be?
Reform the EU, make the top dogs electable and let everyone have an equal imput rather than just certain countries and i'de be happy to stay in.
Its far from democratic in my opinion.

Clarky

suspiciousminds said:

I voted out and i'll stick by it.
I 100% agree with nato and the original trading concept of the Common market but not at all what its become.
Farage was out of order yesterday but so was the likes of Merkle and co in the way they they have spoken out since the result.
I think we're in for a short term terbulant ride but lets face it its not been a bed of roses over the past few years either.
I think the referendum was the right thing to do, Cameron shouldnt have sided with remain or brexit but offered the country true facts about being in or out rather than allowing politicians within parties to divide.
He called the referendum and it stinks the way hes walked away.
Why should we be chastised just because we dont want to be part of an organisation that has evolved into something that it was never intended to be?
Reform the EU, make the top dogs electable and let everyone have an equal imput rather than just certain countries and i'de be happy to stay in.
Its far from democratic in my opinion.

your reasons for voting the way you did are all completely valid to you and a great many others..

although I didn't vote the same way, I have absolutely no problem with this at all

you should not be chastised for it

Bucket

Troy said:

Well i voted leave but some of you on here have stereotyped me as an uneducated unemployed racist.

I haven't, because what would be the point?

I'd appreciate the same treatment in return.

Bucket

Handsome_Chris said:

@bucket, to put it very simply, and as nauseating as it is, 62% of people your age thought that there was something better to do than ensure that they had a vote and keep the United Kingdom in the European Union.

I know. I'm not fucking happy about it either, believe me.

holnrew

I have as much issue as people willing to fuck over the poor and vulnerable in the "short term" for some sort of utopia the EU was somehow preventing that will never come to be, as I do racists.

My life is a shambles as it is, now I'm unlikely to have any kind of future. If more austerity is implemented and I get cuts to benefits I will be even more stressed and unable to ever work on my mental health and start working. There's only one way or of that miserable kind of existence.

joneve

holnrew said:

I have as much issue as people willing to fuck over the poor and vulnerable in the "short term" for some sort of utopia the EU was somehow preventing that will never come to be, as I do racists.

My life is a shambles as it is, now I'm unlikely to have any kind of future. If more austerity is implemented and I get cuts to benefits I will be even more stressed and unable to ever work on my mental health and start working. There's only one way or of that miserable kind of existence.

Yea, but it's OK mate, because we got our country back! Phew! 

Troy

Bucket said:

Troy said:

Well i voted leave but some of you on here have stereotyped me as an uneducated unemployed racist.

I haven't, because what would be the point?

I'd appreciate the same treatment in return.

Soz, i hijacked your post, my comment wasn't aimed at you. 

I'm just pissed off with all the mud slinging and name calling. 

mellowsun

Troy said:

Well i voted leave but some of you on here have stereotyped me as an uneducated unemployed racist.

Who has done that though? I stated that most of the people I know who voted leave were either retired or long-term unemployed. That's of the people that I know that voted leave. I never suggested you were in that group as I don't know you, nor was I being pejorative. 

Although it did strike me that those that I know voted leave may have done so because they felt they had little to lose from the result.

paulmapp8306

Clarky said:

paulmapp8306 said:

RaymondLin said:

How are you do certain that there are long term benefits? Show me an example of the world where they have a similar size population with a better economy that doesn't trade with their nearest neighbour.

A weak pound means bugger all if we don't trade!

You are living in a bubble if you think we can go it along.

This is the bollocks Ive heard before.  Europe is not the be all and end all. 

you could say that taking a 30% [for example] cut in pay isn't the be all and end all either..

sure you can still pay the bills and maybe have enough over for a beer and a little GAS once in a while

but you'd certainly notice the missing dosh..

I took a 25% pay cut when I left the forces (well, nearer 45% actually but the forces pension filled some of that hole).   I really felt it for the first 6 months, then I adjusted and all's well again.

I do take your point though.

paulmapp8306

Clarky said:

paulmapp8306 said:

RaymondLin said:

How are you do certain that there are long term benefits? Show me an example of the world where they have a similar size population with a better economy that doesn't trade with their nearest neighbour.

A weak pound means bugger all if we don't trade!

You are living in a bubble if you think we can go it along.

This is the bollocks Ive heard before.  Europe is not the be all and end all. 

I am not a fan of many of the people that run the EU or for the way it wants to head towards a Federation

so my heart says to leave..

but my brain says to keep the money coming in and keep working on the EU from the inside [and never give in] to try to make it a better place.. which is why I voted to remain..

my personal opinion:

I doubt the UK's choice to leave the EU will be catastrophic, but it seems to be a pretty stupid thing to do

That is pretty much exactly where I was, but I went the other way.  I will say, I changed my mind 4 times in the 24 hours up to the vote - and once again when I got in the booth....... I just felt after the contempt they showed us when we asked for reform prooved there wouldnt be any while in the EU.

paulmapp8306

Heartfeltdawn said:

paulmapp8306 said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Can you blame them for being pissed off? 

errr yes.  If they had all voted and lost then no.  Should have got off their arses away from their PS4s and X Box's and voted.

Mmmm. Stereotyping. Cosy and comforting. 

I can say with absolute certainty that some of the young uns shouting "youve ruined my future you cnuts)" didnt vote - I know 4 of them.  True there not all like that, and some have genuine reason to be unhappy - but my point is valid.  Have your say - or dont complain if what others want isnt what you want.  If they want to vent - I suggest they vent at their contemporaries that showed no enthusiasm to vote rather than us older ones who did, but went against their wishes.

paulmapp8306

@Bucket  I didnt start the stereotyping - someone else said the young say we have ruined their future.  If you voted you have a right be be unhappy with the result - though it was a democratic result.  BUT you cant say "the young" in general have a problem without the argument being about "the young" in general.