Corbyn - I don't get it

Bucket

Everyone my age (say late teens and early 20s) seems to love Jeremy Corbyn, and I cannot understand why.

Yes, he's different to the Eton mafia (what's left of it now anyway) but as far as I can work out, he's a pie-in-the-sky hippie with some stupid ideas and some good ones, he's shown himself to be crotchety and bad-tempered on numerous occasions, he's clearly ill at ease in the public eye and half his own party fucking hate him.

Seriously, what is the appeal? Everyone seems to think he's the second coming... he's been crap as leader of the opposition and I think he'd be a titanically shit PM.

thomasw88

maybe he just gets a bad press?

Bucket

thomasw88 said:

maybe he just gets a bad press?

Along with pretty much every other politician?

JezWynd

He can't be that smart, the tories left him with an open goal and he still couldn't score.

Myranda

He has some views seen as too left by some... So they don't like him. He has shown no authority or statesmanship in running the party so many (including his party) don't see him as capable opposition to the conservatives 

stickyfiddle

Socially, he has some good ideas, and it's nice to hear those. Unfortunately, it's entirely unworkable from an economic perspective. 

The problem with much of the left is that they generally believe the solution to everything is just increasing taxes on "the rich", completely forgetting that "the rich" have accountants, and the ability to live and work abroad, taking all of that lovely money with them.

thomasw88

Bucket said:

thomasw88 said:

maybe he just gets a bad press?

Along with pretty much every other politician?

no not the same as every other politican. In my opinion, the tories tend to get a far easier time in general than Labour. Corbyn on the other hand gets pilloried, constantly by pretty much every major newspaper and TV news over everything and anything. there are numerous examples of this, if you can be bothered to google it.

thomasw88

stickyfiddle said:

Socially, he has some good ideas, and it's nice to hear those. Unfortunately, it's entirely unworkable from an economic perspective. 

The problem with much of the left is that they generally believe the solution to everything is just increasing taxes on "the rich", completely forgetting that "the rich" have accountants, and the ability to live and work abroad, taking all of that lovely money with them.

seeing as you're now in the land of making shit up... The problem with the right is that they tell everyone their lives are getting better when in fact they are getting much much worse unless you're extremely wealthy.

Heartfeltdawn

Bucket said:

Everyone my age (say late teens and early 20s) seems to love Jeremy Corbyn, and I cannot understand why.

Yes, he's different to the Eton mafia (what's left of it now anyway) but as far as I can work out, he's a pie-in-the-sky hippie with some stupid ideas and some good ones, he's shown himself to be crotchety and bad-tempered on numerous occasions, he's clearly ill at ease in the public eye and half his own party fucking hate him.

Seriously, what is the appeal? Everyone seems to think he's the second coming... he's been crap as leader of the opposition and I think he'd be a titanically shit PM.

One thing quite apparent from social media is that there's quite a growing young right wing movement. You can look at the the number of young UKIP reps out there and some of the growing libertarian groups out there who offer a mirror to the Corbyn supporting yoof. Whereas the Britpop Blair fans were courted on centrist terms, now the parties that appeal are those away from the centre (UKIP and libertarians on one side, Green/SNP/Corbynite Labour on the other). Centrist politics have been characerised by two falls from grace (I won't count Cameron as a failure as he did actually return a majority in 2015 with what was a fairly right of centre stance). One would obviously be Blair with his military actions and belief in blowing up bits of Iraq. The other would be the Liberal Democrats in coalition. Centrist parties haven't had much to shout about in the last 14 years. Consequently it's my feeling that the 18-25 generation are going to be a damn sight more polarised than my Britpop bunch were. 

Corbyn's reluctance to court the media gives him a particular image within those who have grown up with social media. He comes over to them as a man who won't do the established act. Why bother talking to the press when you can contact people via Twitter and Facebook? UKIP and Trump have done exactly the same and I don't think it is coincidental that Leave won the referendum and were light years ahead of Remain when it came to utilising the online world (they were heavily advertising on Youtube in the final few days whereas I saw no equivalent from Remain). The speed with which that bullshit about not using pencils when voting is the best indicator of the power of social media. 

rossyamaha

I like him. 

I I see a lot of comments about him not being a strong leader. I think he is but goes about it a different way. He reminds me of an old boss of mine. He wasn't shouty or anything but he knew his shit, would put something across in a way that there wasn't really any argument and got things done. I get the impression he gets a bad time because he actually is working for the benefit of Mr and Mrs Normal rather than the elite. 

Dominic

Hardly the template for a world -revered Statesman.....................if he had to face Putin and others over a G7 type meeting they would think the Council had sent in Health and Safety officer to check the stability of microphone stands !

Heartfeltdawn

Dominic said:

Hardly the template for a world -revered Statesman.....................if he had to face Putin and others over a G7 type meeting they would think the Council had sent in Health and Safety officer to check the stability of microphone stands !

Is this the template for a world revered statesman then? 

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-09-26-1443279714-5738732-vladimirputin.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/06/article-2198963-14DB877D000005DC-143_634x475.jpg

Myranda

Heartfeltdawn said:

Dominic said:

Hardly the template for a world -revered Statesman.....................if he had to face Putin and others over a G7 type meeting they would think the Council had sent in Health and Safety officer to check the stability of microphone stands !

Is this the template for a world revered statesman then? 

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-09-26-1443279714-5738732-vladimirputin.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/06/article-2198963-14DB877D000005DC-143_634x475.jpg

No, but would you want Corbyn sat on the other side of a negotiating table with that loon? He'd floss his teeth with Corbyn's spine

Snap

He's a berk.

He has failed on so many fronts. Never mind all this Brexit lark, he shockingly falied in dealing with anti semitism in his own party for a start. This is the fella who has described Hamas and Hezbollah as "friends".

He's little more than an ideological over grown sixth former.

I think he is the pits and doesnt deserve to head up a party. He cleverly played to a relatively small disenfranchised part of the political spectrum, - the far left. Got them to sign up to the party membership and vote him in.

Far left politics fails everywhere you look, and that's why the Labour party moved to the centre. HOwever, there are always those who believe that socialism can work and they have been pushed furtther and further away from the Labour party.
Socialism as a belief is no bad thing, it has lots of merits, but far left socialism just does not work as a governing force. It usually veers into communism or failure.

Corbyn looks more and more like Napoleon from Animal Farm as each day passes.

stickyfiddle

thomasw88 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Socially, he has some good ideas, and it's nice to hear those. Unfortunately, it's entirely unworkable from an economic perspective. 

The problem with much of the left is that they generally believe the solution to everything is just increasing taxes on "the rich", completely forgetting that "the rich" have accountants, and the ability to live and work abroad, taking all of that lovely money with them.

seeing as you're now in the land of making shit up... The problem with the right is that they tell everyone their lives are getting better when in fact they are getting much much worse unless you're extremely wealthy.

Not quite sure where you've got that from. Which bit are you actually disagreeing with? 

Social policies tend to be expensive (at least in the short term), and it's generally accepted that increasing the taxes on the richest people doesn't necessarily increase the total amount of tax the government collects in real terms.

I don't deny things are buggered up massively at the moment - i'm certainly not trying to pretend they aren't, but I'm also not making anything up. FWIW I agree with your position on the right- they're a bunch of bastards just as much as the left are a bunch of idiots, with us regular people stuck in the middle wishing we had someone credible to vote for.

axisus

Labour were the party for the downtrodden workers for about a million years. Tony Blair realised that nobody wearing a duffel coat would ever get elected as PM so he invented Tory lite. Tory lite got him elected and gave him the chance to be the evil dictator he always wanted to be, but the downtrodden workers were sad, he trod on their faces to scale the mountain of leadership. Tory lite burned brightly for a time, but having set fire to the Book of Labour they were eventually left with just ashes. Out of the smouldering pyre rose the Phoenix that was Corbyn, gliding high up in the air, actually it was more like 5 inches off the ground with a following wind. The downtrodden workers saw the unemotional beardy face, the unkempt clothes and the one short leg (giving him a distinct lean to the left) and realised that he was one of their own. He rose up to his full height of 3 ft and shouted in a resounding whisper "we're back". Tory lite were furious, they had almost perspired in their near endless quest to join the prawn sandwich brigade. Slowly, they gathered together in the shadows, handbags at the ready and prepared to pounce. Corbyn, would be plucking plucked before the day was out, the phoenix replaced by an Eagle.

Cirrus

Dominic said:

Hardly the template for a world -revered Statesman.....................if he had to face Putin and others over a G7 type meeting they would think the Council had sent in Health and Safety officer to check the stability of microphone stands !

On what basis are you making that judgement? I've seen him give some pretty strong speeches, for example, but never seen any of them broadcast on the evening news.

TTony

Heartfeltdawn said:

Dominic said:

Hardly the template for a world -revered Statesman.....................if he had to face Putin and others over a G7 type meeting they would think the Council had sent in Health and Safety officer to check the stability of microphone stands !

Is this the template for a world revered statesman then? 

It is in his mirror.

Bucket said:

Everyone my age (say late teens and early 20s) seems to love Jeremy Corbyn, and I cannot understand why.

At the risk of huge stereotyping, that will then be shot down in flames by everyone else with their own experiences ...

Isn't that because the young are typically more lefty?  As you get older, your views moderate, you realise that there is grey between the black and white, and reality between the left and right.

Corbyn seems to be portrayed as slightly different things, depending on who's selling and who they're selling to, but the fundamental message is that he's "one of the people" and not a polished politician.  He has huge Union backing as he's probably their last hope at reclaiming control of a major political party, and thus giving them a voice in government.  When I was younger, I certainly believed in the principles and values of unions (and I was a member of one until my 40s), so I could imagine the younger me being a Corbyn supporter as a result of those associations.

Whatever his qualities, he's clearly *not* a leader (the no confidence vote is ample evidence) and nor is he credible with the wider population - though anyone who's so strongly associated with Union leaders (who are on a par with many politicians for self-interested aggrandisement when allegedly looking after the interests of others) will struggle to be credible with the wider electorate.

Heartfeltdawn

Myranda said:

No, but would you want Corbyn sat on the other side of a negotiating table with that loon? He'd floss his teeth with Corbyn's spine

He'd end up choking on a piece of beard. Spluttering and turning purple, Vlad looks around the room, waiting for one of those G7 leaders to come over and perform the Heimlich Manouevre...

Russian Bear, downed by beard. 

Cirrus

Snap said:

He's a berk.

He has failed on so many fronts. Never mind all this Brexit lark, he shockingly falied in dealing with anti semitism in his own party for a start. This is the fella who has described Hamas and Hezbollah as "friends".

He's little more than an ideological over grown sixth former.

How would you go about reducing tension between Israel and Palestine? Why do you think Palestinians voted for Hamas in the first place? Sheer evilness? They are surely, unless you genuinely believe that Israel WAS promised to the Jewish peoples by God, an utterly oppressed people who have been very hard done by. Could it be that by opening our arms to people such as Hezbollah, by making them feel like they have a part to play in the wider world and that their concerns might be addressed, we might start to see some light at the end of the tunnel?

Listen, I don't think these are good guys and I'm not blinkered enough to believe that there's any justification for the kind of terrorist acts Hezbollah undertake and Hamas support. But these things happen for a reason, and I think it's grossly unfair to attack a UK politician for trying to reach out to the region in a way that isn't either dropping bombs on it (Iraq, Syria), enacting punishing economic sanctions that ensure the downtrodden population hate the west (Iraq, Iran), or supporting brutal regimes for personal gain (Syria, Saudi Arabia). Maybe it's also a better method than just turning a blind eye when the rockets come in from the Gaza strip and the Israeli state settles the illegally occupied west bank?

I see the idea that a leading UK politician could be forward thinking enough to welcome representatives of those two questionable organisations INCREDIBLY refreshing, and I think if there was more of that kind of attitude in the world it'd be a much better place.

I suppose all that is just a long way of saying I think you're totally wrong. And if you think Labour are Antisemitic, you've been drinking way too much of the cool aid - that whole episode looks from where I'm sat to be part of the current attempt to make Corbyn leave.

The joke is, I don't even like him that much and I don't agree with a lot of what he says. But the way he's been treated by the press and by most of the MPs in his party just rubs me the wrong way, and I feel compelled to be on his side in this.

digitalscream

TTony said:

Corbyn seems to be portrayed as slightly different things, depending on who's selling and who they're selling to, but the fundamental message is that he's "one of the people" and not a polished politician.  He has huge Union backing as he's probably their last hope at reclaiming control of a major political party, and thus giving them a voice in government.  When I was younger, I certainly believed in the principles and values of unions (and I was a member of one until my 40s), so I could imagine the younger me being a Corbyn supporter as a result of those associations.

That's one of his problems right there - the unions have lost a lot of the backing of the general population with the last few strikes; there seems (to me anyway) to be a feeling that they take it too far and have gone beyond "sticking up for the workers" and into "holding the country to ransom" territory.

Having the unions' backing might be a good thing financially, but I don't think it's a good thing politically any more.