Corbyn - I don't get it

Bogwhoppit

impmann said:

I can understand why the media don't like him... because he isn't in their pocket and because he doesn't talk in well rehearsed soundbites, so they actually have to listen to him.

I can understand why the right wingers don't like him... because he stands up for the little people, because he isn't afraid to tackle *policies* head on and because he doesn't indulge in personal mud-slinging. And because he isn't in the pocket of big business (see note about the media above).

I can understand why the Blairites don't like him... he shows them up for being the Tory lites that they are. Lets not forget that Blair's policies didn't work for the economy, either. They also don't like him because the media don't like him.

I can understand why the man in the street doesn't like him... he's not polished, he is intelligent so you actually need to put your smartphone down from facebook for more than 30 seconds to listen to him, and he is hated by the gutter press, so the man in the street is told to fear/hate/dislike *him*. (See note above about the media).

But hey... make your own mind up, eh?

You want his babies, gwan admit it !

ICBM

I really wish that all that made him and Labour electable. My sad realisation is that it doesn't.


I felt the same about Bernie Sanders in the US, and he's now had the good sense to endorse Hillary Clinton. I don't like her, but she is capable of winning in November and he isn't, so there's no point in cutting off your nose to spite your face by sticking with him.


I don't think Eagle is the right leader for Labour either, by the way.

hugbot

I like him, I dont think he's doing a good job as leader though.

The problem is, I don't think just getting rid of him as leader is going to solve labours problems either.

In some ways hes the embodiment of an identity crisis thats been bubbling in the party a long time, thats evident from the moment he was nominated just to "throw a bone" to the party lefties only to win in a landslide (among registered members and unions too, so you cant just lay it all on slacktivists). That says a lot to how disconnected the party leadership is from the base.

Ro_S

Myranda said:

You have mentioned ... Transgender toilets twice now. 

You're of course referring to the non-issue that the American press and righ-wing nuts blew out of all proportion yes? 

The rules that mean a Female to Male trans person with a full beard and dressing like a trucker isn't forced to go into the ladys because someone is interested in what's I  his pants more than how comfortable people feel (including those around them)... Where the press decided that sex attacks would happen with men in drag... Forgetting apparently that sex-crimes are still crimes... And also that a straight man in a dress might be doubly embarrassed being arrested... 

Do you really think it's wrong to let people pee where they feel comfortable? Or are you for genital inspection at doorways into toilets? What would you do with a transsexual who looks very manly but has had reassignment surgery? Or the afformentioned FtM who looks like a trucker? 

People commit suicide over abuse from all over the LGBTQI spectrum, so is it unreasonable to try and mitigate that harm even slightly? 

If you don't think it's bad to try and help suicidal people WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP? 

I'm not interested in getting into a debate about transgender toilets.  That was exactly my point!

As long as someone doesn't pee on the toilet seat, I don't care much.

Besides, there already exists a type of transgender public toilet:  it's called the disabled toilet.

Disability access, rights and equality are far more a priority than transgender toilets.  Far more people are disabled than transgender or trans-sexual.

Chalky

Corbyn's natural role is as a critic. But just like the movie critic who can't write a script, the theatre critic who can't write a musical, and the literary critic who will never be an author, he is useless without someone to criticise. Impossible for him to be a leader. Always was.

Ro_S

Cirrus said:

The point I was *trying*, albeit clumsily, to make is that I don't like that "social justice warrior" and similar phrases are being used to attack people for their views. I think that if you're doing that, you're trying to stop someone doing something they think is right... not because you (not YOU, a generalised you) necessarily think it's wrong, but just because you don't like someone doing something they think is right. 

That's how it comes across to me.

I'm interested in 'real' social justice issues.  For example, disability issues, social mobility, and the treatment of women in certain Muslim countries.

That is opposed to the usual ''social justice warrior'' bollocks like third wave man-hating 'feminism' and supposed gender inequality in the West, and the self indulgent 'look-at-me-aren't-I-special youtube ramblings of a confused 16 year old who identifies as gender fluid.   You're gender fluid?   Good for you.  Who cares.
  

Axe_meister

To me he sums up the Labour party perfectly. The well educated middle class who think they know what is best for the poor working classes

menamestom

An old Oscar Wilde quote, edited slightly....
'If you don't support Corbyn at 25, you have no heart.  If you still support him at 45 you have no brain.'

hungrymark

thomasw88 said:

Bucket said:

thomasw88 said:

maybe he just gets a bad press?

Along with pretty much every other politician?

no not the same as every other politican. In my opinion, the tories tend to get a far easier time in general than Labour. Corbyn on the other hand gets pilloried, constantly by pretty much every major newspaper and TV news over everything and anything. there are numerous examples of this, if you can be bothered to google it.


Seriously? I can't think of a conservative comedian, for example. Twitter and Facebook is overwhelmingly labour-centric too. 

hungrymark

I'm uncomfortable with the sort of personality cult that's arisen around him, although that's not really his fault. I know a few Corbyn fans and they will accept literally no criticism of him. Websites like The Canary, Another Angry Voice and Momentum, the rallies (he does seem to only like talking to people who agree with him, which is fine but not if you're trying to engage an electorate). The comments at Chakrabati's press conference about the lack of anti-semitism in Labour where he sort of, but not quite, compared Israel to ISIS were beyond parody, and although I accept that criticism of Israel isn't the same as anti-semitism it was a spectacularly misjudged statement under the circimstances. What an opportunity missed to stick the boot into the Tories too, his party makes them look cohesive and united. I find him a bit bizarre.

scrumhalf

Corbyn is not a leader. A leader should lead. He seems to just sit there and assumes people would follow him because of his job title.

Heartfeltdawn

Ro_S said:

That is opposed to the usual ''social justice warrior'' bollocks like third wave man-hating 'feminism' and supposed gender inequality in the West, and the self indulgent 'look-at-me-aren't-I-special youtube ramblings of a confused 16 year old who identifies as gender fluid.   
  

Says a man well known for his self-indulgent ramblings here.

Chuffola

*Post self edited since it had become a boring, middle-aged, middle class rant that no-one deserves*

Cirrus

Ro_S said:

Cirrus said:

I suppose if gay rights have now swung unfairly too far compared to hetrosexual rights, it's a small price to pay for all the imprisonment, criminalisation, social stigma, forced castrations and shame that gay people have had to live with for centuries. So I won't begrudge them it too much.

How many British/Western gay men under the age of, say 70, have faced any of those things you listed (other than perhaps social stigma)?    

Answer:  None. 

Are you sure, and is it your place to say?

Cirrus

menamestom said:

An old Oscar Wilde quote, edited slightly....
'If you don't support Corbyn at 25, you have no heart.  If you still support him at 45 you have no brain.'

I hate that quote. "Oscar Wilde" was just talking about himself, to explain his own switch.

fretmeister

Ro_S said:

Cirrus said:

I suppose if gay rights have now swung unfairly too far compared to hetrosexual rights, it's a small price to pay for all the imprisonment, criminalisation, social stigma, forced castrations and shame that gay people have had to live with for centuries. So I won't begrudge them it too much.

How many British/Western gay men under the age of, say 70, have faced any of those things you listed (other than perhaps social stigma)?    

Answer:  None. 

I'm impressed.

Every time you post on this forum you look like more of a pillock than before.

It's a 100% achievement so far. Do keep it up.

Heartfeltdawn

Ro_S said:

How many British/Western gay men under the age of, say 70, have faced any of those things you listed (other than perhaps social stigma)?    

Answer:  None. 

When homosexuality was decriminalized in 1967, this only applied to England and Wales. Homosexuality wasn't decriminalized in Scotland until 1980 with the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act. Northern Ireland decriminalized homosexual acts in 1982. 

So it's fair to say that there are indeed British homosexuals under the age of 70 who suffered more than social stigma by virtue of the law telling them that they were committing an illegal act if they took it up the arse. 

I therefore conclude that your assertion is a load of shit. 

Myranda

Ro_S said:

Myranda said:

You have mentioned ... Transgender toilets twice now. 

You're of course referring to the non-issue that the American press and righ-wing nuts blew out of all proportion yes? 

The rules that mean a Female to Male trans person with a full beard and dressing like a trucker isn't forced to go into the ladys because someone is interested in what's I  his pants more than how comfortable people feel (including those around them)... Where the press decided that sex attacks would happen with men in drag... Forgetting apparently that sex-crimes are still crimes... And also that a straight man in a dress might be doubly embarrassed being arrested... 

Do you really think it's wrong to let people pee where they feel comfortable? Or are you for genital inspection at doorways into toilets? What would you do with a transsexual who looks very manly but has had reassignment surgery? Or the afformentioned FtM who looks like a trucker? 

People commit suicide over abuse from all over the LGBTQI spectrum, so is it unreasonable to try and mitigate that harm even slightly? 

If you don't think it's bad to try and help suicidal people WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP? 

I'm not interested in getting into a debate about transgender toilets.  That was exactly my point!

As long as someone doesn't pee on the toilet seat, I don't care much.

Besides, there already exists a type of transgender public toilet:  it's called the disabled toilet.

Disability access, rights and equality are far more a priority than transgender toilets.  Far more people are disabled than transgender or trans-sexual.

So you DO want to segregate trans people? You want them taking up the one disabled toilet so the disabled have to wait? Why do you dislike trans people so much? 

Are there any other harmless minorities you'd like to oppress? 

Did a one legged trans gypsy gay dwarf touch you once? 

Ro_S

Myranda said:

[1] So you DO want to segregate trans people? You want them taking up the one disabled toilet so the disabled have to wait? Why do you dislike trans people so much? 

[2]  Are there any other harmless minorities you'd like to oppress? 

[3]  Did a one legged trans gypsy gay dwarf touch you once? 

1.  where did i say any of that?   so do you want all public toilets to be unisex? 

2.  yes, those with an additional finger.

3.  no, it was a Black one legged trans gypsy gay dwarf .


btw, I am disabled, gypsy and, on a Friday, transgender.  What of it?   'You wanna touch me?!   i'll put a gypsy curse on you.

thomasw88

hungrymark said:

I'm uncomfortable with the sort of personality cult that's arisen around him, although that's not really his fault. I know a few Corbyn fans and they will accept literally no criticism of him. Websites like The Canary, Another Angry Voice and Momentum, the rallies (he does seem to only like talking to people who agree with him, which is fine but not if you're trying to engage an electorate). The comments at Chakrabati's press conference about the lack of anti-semitism in Labour where he sort of, but not quite, compared Israel to ISIS were beyond parody, and although I accept that criticism of Israel isn't the same as anti-semitism it was a spectacularly misjudged statement under the circimstances. What an opportunity missed to stick the boot into the Tories too, his party makes them look cohesive and united. I find him a bit bizarre.

he didnt compare Israel to ISIS at all. What he said was that Israelis are no more to blame for the actions of Netanyahus government and than Muslims are to blame for ISIS. However the complete media meltdown afterwards didn't quite concentrate on that comparison..