Another attack in France...

benmurray85

Stevepage said:

Getting pretty concerned now. I've got a holiday booked a little further south along the coast from there in September. Won't stop me going but will keep me on my toes.

thats the spirit

Emp_Fab

What I don't get is the logic of the attacker...  He probably killed several muslims too...  There was no way to be selective about who he was killing - it was just indiscriminate slaughter.  What the fuck is the point of that ?  No matter what your beliefs are, what, on any level, can possibly be achieved by indiscriminate and random slaughter ?

Only yesterday France announced they were planning on relaxing the state of emergency, and now this happens.  The timing is obvious - they want to keep France in a perpetual state of panic.  What is that going to achieve though ?

FX_Munkee

Emp_Fab said:

What I don't get is the logic of the attacker...  He probably killed several muslims too...  There was no way to be selective about who he was killing - it was just indiscriminate slaughter.  What the fuck is the point of that ?  No matter what your beliefs are, what, on any level, can possibly be achieved by indiscriminate and random slaughter ?

Only yesterday France announced they were planning on relaxing the state of emergency, and now this happens.  The timing is obvious - they want to keep France in a perpetual state of panic.  What is that going to achieve though ?

If your view of the world is warped enough, you're not going to/can't rationalise things to that level. You might as well ask your dog which soap opera he prefers.

As for the second point, look up Terrorism in a dictionary.

octatonic

Emp_Fab said:

What I don't get is the logic of the attacker...  He probably killed several muslims too...  There was no way to be selective about who he was killing - it was just indiscriminate slaughter.  What the fuck is the point of that ?  No matter what your beliefs are, what, on any level, can possibly be achieved by indiscriminate and random slaughter ?

They aren't 'real muslims' according to death cult ideology.
They win by causing mayhem.

DesVegas

Bonkers

SRich

Emp_Fab said:

The timing is obvious - they want to keep France in a perpetual state of panic.  What is that going to achieve though ?

And while the World's press and security agencies are on high focused alert, other attacks can be planned on other countries.

I truly wish this was not the case, but I fear it may be.

stickyfiddle

France is targeted because the people planning these attacks are already in France. They know they're on watch lists so can't travel easily, and France is as good a place as any. 

Unfortunately I can't see any possible way we can stop these things happening without massive invasion of civil liberties, which wouldn't be worth it.

Panama_Jack666

octatonic said:

Emp_Fab said:

What I don't get is the logic of the attacker...  He probably killed several muslims too...  There was no way to be selective about who he was killing - it was just indiscriminate slaughter.  What the fuck is the point of that ?  No matter what your beliefs are, what, on any level, can possibly be achieved by indiscriminate and random slaughter ?

They aren't 'real muslims' according to death cult ideology.
They win by causing mayhem.

This is very true. The Islamic State have been killing scores of Muslims and blowing up Mosques for some time now. They're believe that anyone that doesn't follow Islam in the exact way that they interpret it are non believers.

littlegreenman

ICBM said:

Looks like the main - or only, it's not clear - weapon here was a truck, so any laws on gun ownership are irrelevant.

I'm going to Paris next week so I'm expecting heavy security. No way I'm not going though, that would be giving these evil bastards what they want.

I'm going to Paris next week as well, for the finale of the Tour de France, and those fuckers aren't going to stop me either.

Ro_S

Emp_Fab  said:

Only yesterday France announced they were planning on relaxing the state of emergency, and now this happens.  The timing is obvious - they want to keep France in a perpetual state of panic.  What is that going to achieve though ?

The timing was because it was Bastille Day.

"a perpetual state of panic. What is that going to achieve though ?"  

- er, that's kind of how terrorism basically works.

Brize

Cue politicians saying that they will defeat terrorism while doing nothing about it and people posting pointless memes on Facebook. 

ICBM

SRich said:

And while the World's press and security agencies are on high focused alert, other attacks can be planned on other countries.

I truly wish this was not the case, but I fear it may be.

They are anyway - these terrorists are not really a single organisation directing operations from a central command, more a loose structure of followers who can be left to act independently.

The biggest problem is that it's now been demonstrated just how effective a truck is as a weapon, far more than a gun or a bomb in the hands of one terrorist. That's pretty certain to inspire others to try the same thing.

Myranda

Friends live in Nice. They'd have been out on the prom if one of them. Wasn't back in the UK on business. Checked up with them this morning. They're fine but shocked.

Myranda

Brize said:

Cue politicians saying that they will defeat terrorism while doing nothing about it and people posting pointless memes on Facebook. 

How do you defeat terrorism? Its not like they wear uniforms (normally) and have well advertised club houses. 

When two groups have such deep seated ideological differences they will bicker and fight. When one is a nation and the other a disparate group of individuals the later will resort to guerrilla style and terror style attacks because they have no other way to fight

To fight terror you have to close ideological gaps, sooth tensions etc... More shooty will make more anger. Not less. 

Brize

@Myranda I agree, but you have to have some sort of strategy, whether it be more shooty or more placatory.

slacker

Unfortunately guerrilla warfare is very effective. The best way is to infiltrate but if they are from an ethnic group it's difficult to recruit and if the organisation is compartmentalised, it's very hard to deal with. 

JezWynd

France has a long history of involvement in North Africa, esp. Algeria and Morocco where they had imperial ambitions similar to our own in India. This is one of the main reasons for France's large North African and Muslim population.

Myranda

France is quite anti-islam - quite a lot of verbal abuse on streets (and anti-Jewish too)... Step one in being less of a target would be stop being racist... But in light of this new attack I don't see that happening much. (not blaming France... But in Europe they would seem the most obvious target for that and several other reasons mentioned previously) 

Come the next election in France the Far right (already making gains) might do really well on an anti terror anti ISIS and anti immigration campaign... Which ironically will probably make more want to do terror at France... 

Ro_S

About 1/10th of the French population is Muslim.

According to one survey of few years ago, about 40% of younger French Muslims supported suicide bombings.

Regardless of the social factors, a significantly disproportionate % of French Muslims have criminal records and have spent time in prison.

France has strong historical and demographic links to northern Africa.  And of course northern Africa is reasonably close to southern France.

I gather the truck attacker is believed to be Tunisian or of Tunisian descent or Tunisian origin.

About 99% of Tunisians are Muslim.

For those who insist that ISIS/Jihadi-related attacks have nothing at all to do with Islam, they need to get head their heads examined.

We need to realise that we have a form of war going on.  This is not what we used to typically conceive of as terrorism.  

Yes, this attack was awful.  Yes, we can express sympathy and rhetoric.  The youngsters can do their hash-tags and Facebook filters.   But we actually need to do something if we want a situation to change. 

fnpt

Myranda said:

France is quite anti-islam - quite a lot of verbal abuse on streets (and anti-Jewish too)... Step one in being less of a target would be stop being racist... But in light of this new attack I don't see that happening much. (not blaming France... But in Europe they would seem the most obvious target for that and several other reasons mentioned previously) 

I actually think you are.