Can Someone Please Explain to me Strat Prices?

peteri

In my ongoing quest - it appears to me:

£1500-2000 Fender Custom Shop Used
£2300-5000 Fender Custom Shop New, team to master built
£4500-7000+ Maybe late 69 if you're lucky, if not early-mid 70's
£10000+ transition/pre CBS

I've only been able to find one 60's strat at 'reasonable' money - £4750 at New Kings Road for a 65, refinished in poly with re-wound pickups.

Is it me or are these prices mad? You can either get a 59-62 Les Paul/SG Jr or a very ropey early 70s strat.

Is there any reason not to just get a used Custom Shop?

Love to hear my prices are off - but been looking for a nice rosewood board strat, and can't find many which break this model!

Pete

richardhomer

peteri said:

Is there any reason not to just get a used Custom Shop?

No - none whatsoever.

The best CS guitars are at least as good as anything ever made with Fender on the headstock - without fears of none-original parts/fakes.

I've owned a 'real' 63 & a 65 - I now own the 2006 CS Strat in my profile pic. It's outstanding and cost me £1500...

dindude

I agree. CS Fenders = sanity, vintage Fenders = vanity. Especially as most affordable ones probably won't be nearly as nice as a CS, and trying to navigate how original it all is (or isn't) can be a minefield.

guitars4you

richardhomer said:

peteri said:

Is there any reason not to just get a used Custom Shop?

No - none whatsoever.

The best CS guitars are at least as good as anything ever made with Fender on the headstock - without fears of none-original parts/fakes.

I've owned a 'real' 63 & a 65 - I now own the 2006 CS Strat in my profile pic. It's outstanding and cost me £1500...

Richard has just about said it right in a concise way

You get a lot of used guitar for your money with a C/Shop around 1500-2000 subject to spec and features - You'll have a far larger choice of new models from 2300-3000 in various dealers in the UK

Some 70's Fenders are okay but many aren't - remember it was 70's Fenders that started the phrase 'old is better than new' and in the 70's it was true - Today C/Shop represent the best vintage based guitar you can buy regarding tonal character, playing performance and authenticity - You can play it without fear and it now makes that phrase far less relevant

Most/many top players now own gig and work with C/Shop and Masterbuilt models inc Gilmour, Beck, Marvin, Clapton, Kenny Wayne Sheppard, John Mayer, Eric Johnson etc etc

To spend £2500 on a new C/Shop Strat that will last longer than me and you will, represents pretty good value and after 10 years will only cost you .69p a day and yet you still have the value of the guitar at the end of it

SimpleSimon

dindude said:

I agree. CS Fenders = sanity, vintage Fenders = vanity. Especially as most affordable ones probably won't be nearly as nice as a CS, and trying to navigate how original it all is (or isn't) can be a minefield.

Part of the reason I ditched out of the vintage market -realising playability and reliability beats vintage vibe and mojo for me at least. If I was a rich Rock Star then it wouldn't matter!

robinbowes

Simple rule of thumb: if you want a guitar to play, don't buy a vintage Strat*.

* unless you have enough money to not have to worry about how much it costs

SNAKEBITE

I think this argument can also cascade down the market.

Fender Mexican vs Fender USA, Japanese vs USA, High end Squire vs Fender etc.

It has been summed up though by the "If you have the money why not" comments, and that's just as good an answer as anything else

Lebarque

I'll add to the list:
£1000 - Partscaster that can hang with any of them.

danny_777

Your pricing of 70s strats is well off. Late 70s will be £750-1500, and pre-75 will be £1300-2000.

SimpleSimon

SNAKEBITE said:

I think this argument can also cascade down the market.

Fender Mexican vs Fender USA, Japanese vs USA, High end Squire vs Fender etc.

It has been summed up though by the "If you have the money why not" comments, and that's just as good an answer as anything else

Its not just about money. A lot of people don't realise that a vintage guitar is not just a financial investment but can be an investment of time if/when things fail and go wrong. Much in the same way a vintage car might need more fettling to keep going *some vintage guitars can need constant fettling to keep road worthy.

DrBob

I came here to see what @Gassage was going to say but he's not joined in yet !

Gassage

I'd say the OP is a bit high.

This is what I'd pay:

MIM- 250-450
MIJ 250-750
Squier JV 600 ish
US- 800-1100
CS 1300-2000
Masterbuilt/Cunetto 2250-3200
1970's 1000-2500 (early 3 bolters have the best pups ever!!)
68/69 Maple Cap- 7000-10000
other 66-71= 4000-7000 (non refins)
pre CBS Refin 5000-7500
pre CBS 'player' 8000-12000
preCBS minter- 14000-25000
pre CBS rare colour- 15000-25000
preCBS holy grail colours (LPB, CAR, orig Sonic, Shoreline, blonde with maple) £25000-50000

Where are the bargains?
70s
US AVRI
Eric Johnson (early ones)
Custom Shop standard ones- choose colour wisely.

What are overpriced?
Maple caps and masterbuilt

Best investment;
early 70's, esp 1970 4 bolters with rosewood (3500-4500)
preCBS players- some bargains around if you really haggle
Squier JV's- these will be worth a fortune in yrs to come.

peteri

Thanks to all

@Gassage - please let me know where these bargains are! Would love to find an early 70's 4 bolter with rosewood. Or a 66-71 for that matter (69 would be great as a birth year).

That said, all this great advice is making CS look a great idea - and then use the 'change' for a Les Paul DC Jr!

Jez6345789

The only Strats I own are parts casters I specked and built.
even when I did the factory tour fender guys were very blunt about it there is no mojo unicorns blood split to make these guitars just straight forward carpentry.

yeah once that gets filtered through marketing a lot more gets added in.to the publicity.

crunchman

@Gassage I'm not sure I'd call 70's a bargain.  You are quoting £1000 upwards.  Admittedly I've not played a lot of 70's Strats (I've been put off by the few I have played) but I've got a Mexican Strat that I prefer to any of the 70's ones I've played.

I think the best bargains at the moment are the late 80's / early 90's US Standards.  I know they are not nitro finished and don't have all the vintage correct features but they are far better guitars than the 70's ones that fetch twice the price.

Gassage

crunchman said:

@Gassage I'm not sure I'd call 70's a bargain.  You are quoting £1000 upwards.  Admittedly I've not played a lot of 70's Strats (I've been put off by the few I have played) but I've got a Mexican Strat that I prefer to any of the 70's ones I've played.

I think the best bargains at the moment are the late 80's / early 90's US Standards.  I know they are not nitro finished and don't have all the vintage correct features but they are far better guitars than the 70's ones that fetch twice the price.

Hmmm...I guess perceived value is always a tough one. I love the early 70's stuff- after 75 it was all a bit heavy. I'd never give a 2 point trem strat house room- I fundamentally believe the vintage trem is key to a strat sound.

I know where there's a rough as hell looking MIM for 400 that almost plays as good as a pre CBS..... (little guitar shop- CAR one- it used to be mine)

Re 1970 4 bolters- go to Nashville- you'll get loads! Wunjo had a beauty 1970 for  3995 and were prepared to sell it for 3300

crunchman

I'd agree that a vintage trem is better which is I why I'd go for Mexican Classic series ahead of a US Standard, but all the US Standards I've played have been better than the 70's ones I've played which have all weighed about the same as a small planet.

The 70's ones I've played have all been late 70's so I've not really got any experience of early 70's stuff but the big headstock puts me off.  If it's costing £3k I'd rather get a Masterbuilt made to my specs than get a big headstock.

I did play a couple of 69 (year of birth) Teles a few weeks back that were very nice though.  Still not sure I could justify the price tag.

Voxman

dindude said:

I agree. CS Fenders = sanity, vintage Fenders = vanity. Especially as most affordable ones probably won't be nearly as nice as a CS, and trying to navigate how original it all is (or isn't) can be a minefield.

As someone who owns a nice '69 Hardtail Strat, I have to agree!  It's a nice guitar but there's no way I'd pay upwards of £5k for it (easily its 'value', even with a non-original scratch plate, extra 'tree', and 5-way).  In terms of a lovely players guitar, a Custom Shop is the biz because they're made with a care and attention to detail that probably didn't apply to most of the originals other than perhaps a relative handful of earlier pre-CBS Strats.  I've played a few CS Strats (inc 68/69's) and I think they are better built guitars than my original that sound at least as good, if not better!

Gassage

I b2b'd my Cunetto v the 2 pre CBS's last night. They are tonally in another league of stratiness, and my Cunetto is a belter.

Gassage

guitars4you said:

Most/many top players now own gig and work with C/Shop and Masterbuilt models inc Gilmour, Beck, Marvin, Clapton, Kenny Wayne Sheppard, John Mayer, Eric Johnson etc etc

Mark,

Can assure you DG used only the Black Strat (which, let's face it, is a 70 body, an 82 Dan Smith neck and all sorts of mishmash of hardware), the 1955 Esquire, the 1956 Bigsby clad Gold Top and a 1952 Gibson acoustic on tour this year. No CS or modern stuff at all. (Black strat has a SSL1C-DG in bridge and original, (not CS) 69 grey backs in middle and neck.

He also used 2 lap steels- the old red Jedson for the open Open Em chord, E B E G B E and the blonde Fender Deluxe 6 for open G chord- D G D G B E, and a Taylor nylon strung for the outro of High Hopes.

He carried a spare CS Black Strat (unused) and the #2 Red 57 RI (also unused- #1's neck is now on the black strat.)

The only CS guitar of his used on tour was his Baritone Telecaster (Bass VI with Tele body and Bigsby)

The black strat neck is now almost bereft of lacquer on the fretboard.- like hardly any on the top note side.

richardhomer

Voxman said:
As someone who owns a nice '69 Hardtail Strat, I have to agree!  It's a nice guitar but there's no way I'd pay upwards of £5k for it (easily its 'value', even with a non-original scratch plate, extra 'tree', and 5-way).  In terms of a lovely players guitar, a Custom Shop is the biz because they're made with a care and attention to detail that probably didn't apply to most of the originals other than perhaps a relative handful of earlier pre-CBS Strats.  I've played a few CS Strats (inc 68/69's) and I think they are better built guitars than my original that sound at least as good, if not better!

I played a 1970 hardtail in a North West based vintage dealer last year.

It was sunburst (the most common finish), had a replacement (incorrect) b/w/b scratchplate, some wiring mods and a non-original case. They wanted £5500 for it....

An 'ok' rather than great guitar from a playing/tonal perspective - and not collectors grade either.

They sold it, incidentally....