Can Someone Please Explain to me Strat Prices?

Gassage

Voxman said:

Gassage said:

Someone asked re Maple Caps.

This one is 8k I think. It's the Hendrix thing. Angel are OK too pricewise.

http://www.angelmusicguitars.com/Vintage_Guitar/202/1969_Fender_Stratocaster_maple_cap_neck.html

Thanks Gassage - t'were me!  Wow, I think I need to up the insurance cover on mine!

The irony is they only ever happened by accident cos Fender had a shit load of blanks cut for rosewood boards and there was a shortage - so they just cut some maple and slapped it on.

downbytheriver

Actually, the other "one that got away" was an early 60 Custom Player - they were stunningly good guitars for mex money. It was easily the twangiest Strat I've ever owned and I didn't realise how good it was till was gone (they paved paradise etc etc) 

jeztone2

I was at a wedding a while ago when a quite arrogant bloke I was at uni with, started going on about this rich guy he knows buying a 61 Strat in Fiesta red. It then dawned on me the bloke in question didn't even play guitar. He had just bought it for bragging rights/investment. To me that's like a rich person with no tastebuds buying a 2009 bottle of Chatau Margaux. Sure it's expensive, but how could you appreciate it?

i was tempted to go down the CS route. But I wanted a Strat for about a grand with a chunky neck & big frets. The Kotzen Strat is a no brainer & for some reason Fender have chosen to price them lower than they are in Japan. So I got a new guitar for a used grey import price.

But the CS Fenders I have played have been very good. But it's a case of what you are prepared to pay I guess. 

Voxman

Gassage said:

Voxman said:

Gassage said:

Someone asked re Maple Caps.

This one is 8k I think. It's the Hendrix thing. Angel are OK too pricewise.

http://www.angelmusicguitars.com/Vintage_Guitar/202/1969_Fender_Stratocaster_maple_cap_neck.html

Thanks Gassage - t'were me!  Wow, I think I need to up the insurance cover on mine!

The irony is they only ever happened by accident cos Fender had a shit load of blanks cut for rosewood boards and there was a shortage - so they just cut some maple and slapped it on.

Interesting explanation - but I don't think that's right Gassage - at least I don't think it was anything to do with rosewood shortage. Fender decided (from around '62) to concentrate on rosewood boards and avoid having to rout out the skunk stripe and fill it with walnut. To reduce cost and simplify their build, instead of having a different process (ie one piece maple neck) from around '67 they decided to use the same top routed necks and add a maple cap. However, some players still wanted a maple board and because of the extra cost of cutting & fitting a maple cap, the maple 'cap' board was a custom order option only.  Fender only did this for a couple of years (67-69 I think), then went back to the single piece maple neck/board.   

Some info here: http://www2.fender.com/experience/tech-talk/what-is-a-skunk-stripe/

richardhomer

Voxman said:
Interesting explanation - but I don't think that's right Gassage - at least I don't think it was anything to do with rosewood shortage. Fender decided (from around '62) to concentrate on rosewood boards and avoid having to rout out the skunk stripe and fill it with walnut. To reduce cost and simplify their build, instead of having a different process (ie one piece maple neck) from around '67 they decided to use the same top routed necks and add a maple cap. However, some players still wanted a maple board and because of the extra cost of cutting & fitting a maple cap, the maple 'cap' board was a custom order option only.  Fender only did this for a couple of years (67-69 I think), then went back to the single piece maple neck/board.   

Some info here: http://www2.fender.com/experience/tech-talk/what-is-a-skunk-stripe/

Correct - it was about standardising production methods.

When the one-piece maple neck was reintroduced (at the time Bullet trussrods were introduced) the skunk stripe returned and was used on rosewood board necks as well.

peteri

Guys

I wanted to thank everyone for the comments - it's given me lots to think about, and certainly I think I need to play some Custom Shops and find the one that speaks to me. And if I stumble on a great early 70's on the way - all is good.

Interestingly yesterday, I played a couple of mid/late 60's SGs - both absolutely non-inspiring, dogs!

So always play before you buy!

richardhomer

An interesting postscript....

I played a 'real' '57 at the Manchester Guitar Show today. Unfortunately I didn't get to plug it in - but acoustically (admittedly in a fairly noisy environment) it sounded darker, though no more resonant - than my '56 Custom Shop. In fairness, it had an alder body - mine's ash - which may account for some tonal variation.

The neck was thinner than my CS - though general playability was very similar. The '57 was possibly slightly lighter - but I do mean 'slightly'.

Although described as 'totally original' - the knobs looked a noticeably different shade from the pick-up covers and switch-tip. The machines looked like replacements also.

The real issue was the price. The seller claims he had been offered £28,000 and turned it down....

guitars4you

richardhomer said:

An interesting postscript....

I played a 'real' '57 at the Manchester Guitar Show today. Unfortunately I didn't get to plug it in - but acoustically (admittedly in a fairly noisy environment) it sounded darker, though no more resonant - than my '56 Custom Shop. In fairness, it had an alder body - mine's ash - which may account for some tonal variation.

The neck was thinner than my CS - though general playability was very similar. The '57 was possibly slightly lighter - but I do mean 'slightly'.

Although described as 'totally original' - the knobs looked a noticeably different shade from the pick-up covers and switch-tip. The machines looked like replacements also.

The real issue was the price. The seller claims he had been offered £28,000 and turned it down....

I saw it Rich but did not touch it - hard not to feel skeptical about such claims etc at 28K and not sell it

Did you see the guy waking around with a tweed case and a refin 62 by Paulman from Huddersfield

richardhomer

guitars4you said:
Did you see the guy waking around with a tweed case and a refin 62 by Paulman from Huddersfield

No, I didn't.

I did see a '63 which was unsold from last year's show.

One of those guitars where it's hard to see if anything's original - fingerboard planed so thin that the fret tangs go in to the maple, body and neck refinish, suspiciously shiny pick-up pole-pieces, replacement pick guard, et al....

Last time I asked the price, I was told £4000 - ridiculous for what it is....

Gassage

guitars4you said:

richardhomer said:

An interesting postscript....

I played a 'real' '57 at the Manchester Guitar Show today. Unfortunately I didn't get to plug it in - but acoustically (admittedly in a fairly noisy environment) it sounded darker, though no more resonant - than my '56 Custom Shop. In fairness, it had an alder body - mine's ash - which may account for some tonal variation.

The neck was thinner than my CS - though general playability was very similar. The '57 was possibly slightly lighter - but I do mean 'slightly'.

Although described as 'totally original' - the knobs looked a noticeably different shade from the pick-up covers and switch-tip. The machines looked like replacements also.

The real issue was the price. The seller claims he had been offered £28,000 and turned it down....

I saw it Rich but did not touch it - hard not to feel skeptical about such claims etc at 28K and not sell it

Did you see the guy waking around with a tweed case and a refin 62 by Paulman from Huddersfield

David Pym has a mint 56 for £17k.

Unless it was CAR or something nuts £28k is bullshit.

DLM

Thanks guys, this thread has been great reading.

Gassage said:

US- 800-1100

@Gassage That's new, right? Used US Strats seem to be going for an awful lot less than that. My mate's dad's got one I've been trying to buy for years. I think his reluctance to sell is based on the fact that he basically stole it from some guy in Berlin who didn't get on with the neck, which has a nice scallop job. €200 in about 2000. I'm not sure exactly what sort of US Strat it is or I would have long made him a straight offer, but he certainly got a bargain. The oddest feature isn't even the scallop, it's the Neutrik locking jack socket plate with integrated boost, which I assume is an aftermarket mod.

Voxman

Since this thread started I've had my '69 Strat professionally set-up and it's now 'settled in'.  I've been playing it all week and even took it to band practice (first time it's been 'out' for years!). I have to say that it does have a warmth and a feel that just isn't there with my other Strat (Standard 2010) or other Strats I remember playing over the last few years.  So there's definitely some kind of (for lack of another term) 'mojo' going on there.  Whether it's really worth £7-8k though is another question.   

crunchman

Voxman said:

Since this thread started I've had my '69 Strat professionally set-up and it's now 'settled in'.  I've been playing it all week and even took it to band practice (first time it's been 'out' for years!). I have to say that it does have a warmth and a feel that just isn't there with my other Strat (Standard 2010) or other Strats I remember playing over the last few years.  So there's definitely some kind of (for lack of another term) 'mojo' going on there.  Whether it's really worth £7-8k though is another question.   

A 2010 Standard will have the modern 2 point trem.  It's worth comparing to some higher spec (AVRI or Custom Shop) Strats with a vintage style trem.

As I said above I'd take a US Standard over the late 70's monstrosities but apart from that I'd go for something with a proper vintage style bridge.

My personal Strat pecking order would go something like this (from worst to best):

Late 70's weight of a planet
Any monstrosity with a Floyd
Mexican/Japanese 2 point bridge
US Deluxe with crappy noiseless pickups and 2 point bridge
US Standard with 2 point bridge
Other US factory built of any kind with a big headstock but vintage bridge
Mexican/Japanese vintage bridge
Custom Shop with 2 point bridge
US factory vintage bridge
US factory vintage bridge nitro finish
Custom Shop vintage bridge relic finish
Custom Shop vintage bridge NOS finish
Proper pre-CBS

Some of that is preference.  I'm not a massive fan of relics and I really don't like big headstocks but I am convinced that a vintage style trem sounds better - but if it's on a horrible guitar I'd rather have decent wood and a 2 point trem than bad wood.

Gassage

Question

Laces. Who likes?

Whitecat

Gassage said:

Question

Laces. Who likes?

Jonny Greenwood, and I think the association with him has actually kept the Strat Plus way more buoyant on the second-hand market then it otherwise would be. If he hadn't picked one up and made a bunch of really well-loved records with it I think it would be a black sheep.

dindude

Yeah the Strat Plus has all the "wrongness" of current (and vintage) Strat thinking; heavy, 2-point trem, poly finish, roller nut, non-vintage pickups.

Makes me want one!

crunchman

I don't recall ever playing anything with Lace sensors.  I did watch something on Youtube recently where someone was playing with them that sounded good.

richardhomer

I like them a lot. EC always sounded better when his signature guitars had them instead of Vintage Noiseless to my ears.

BintyTwanger77

I've yet to find a Strat I really like.

Tried Custom Shops and a couple of vintage ones and they just don't work for me. I'm far happier with offsets and Teles.

Or maybe I just haven't found the right Strat yet.

Voxman

crunchman said:

Voxman said:

Since this thread started I've had my '69 Strat professionally set-up and it's now 'settled in'.  I've been playing it all week and even took it to band practice (first time it's been 'out' for years!). I have to say that it does have a warmth and a feel that just isn't there with my other Strat (Standard 2010) or other Strats I remember playing over the last few years.  So there's definitely some kind of (for lack of another term) 'mojo' going on there.  Whether it's really worth £7-8k though is another question.   

A 2010 Standard will have the modern 2 point trem.  It's worth comparing to some higher spec (AVRI or Custom Shop) Strats with a vintage style trem.

As I said above I'd take a US Standard over the late 70's monstrosities but apart from that I'd go for something with a proper vintage style bridge.

My personal Strat pecking order would go something like this (from worst to best):

Late 70's weight of a planet
Any monstrosity with a Floyd
Mexican/Japanese 2 point bridge
US Deluxe with crappy noiseless pickups and 2 point bridge
US Standard with 2 point bridge
Other US factory built of any kind with a big headstock but vintage bridge
Mexican/Japanese vintage bridge
Custom Shop with 2 point bridge
US factory vintage bridge
US factory vintage bridge nitro finish
Custom Shop vintage bridge relic finish
Custom Shop vintage bridge NOS finish
Proper pre-CBS

Some of that is preference.  I'm not a massive fan of relics and I really don't like big headstocks but I am convinced that a vintage style trem sounds better - but if it's on a horrible guitar I'd rather have decent wood and a 2 point trem than bad wood.

Just to clarify, my '69 (original, not relic) is a hardtail, with (of course) the original bridge, F-tuners, p/ups, etc.  Only hardware change has been a 5-way to replace original 3-way, and an extra matching vintage correct 'tree'.  Alder body with maple neck (no skunk stripe) and maple-capped finger board.  Bought it for £187.50 38 years ago!

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/voxman5/ADVENT-PC/Pictures/Gear/1969 Fender Stratocaster/IMG_20161014_145327482_zpsfc9rabxf.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/voxman5/ADVENT-PC/Pictures/Gear/1969 Fender Stratocaster/IMG_20161014_145530700_zpsqexizmol.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/voxman5/ADVENT-PC/Pictures/Gear/1969 Fender Stratocaster/IMG_20161013_183933949_zpstztkqmxp.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/voxman5/ADVENT-PC/Pictures/Gear/1969 Fender Stratocaster/IMG_20161014_145610729_HDR_zpstjxlfg08.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/voxman5/ADVENT-PC/Pictures/Gear/1969 Fender Stratocaster/IMG_20161014_144927922_zps5bly1u1x.jpg