Tone World in Administration

Jetfire

Fretwired;164174" said:

Jetfire said:

All depends on how the businesses were set up. If he was trading as a sole trader or partnership, then he would loose it all. However, I havent done business studies since 1997





I suspect it might be something to do with restraint of trade clause in his previous employment contract or termination/settlement agreement. I always received excellent service from the staff at Tone World.

So I was totally wrong then, yeah? Lol

Cacofonix

Trading via a company doesn't get you out completely anyway.  The bank often wants a personal guarantee.  

One thing I would say, having been heavily involved in insolvency legal work some time ago, in a specialist insolvency legal firm is that there is at least potentially a difference between a claim in trust and a claim in contract, but he who snoozes, loses.

Speak to a proper insolvency lawyer, is my advice. Too long ago for me to be of any use, and I won't bullshit that I know everything, but you might get a five minute chat for nothing and it can't hurt.  Check out the terms on which the shop took the item to sell for you.  Also mention retention of title and trust law.  They might write to the IPs for you as well, for a fee.

Not breaking the "no lawyer" rule here, am I?  

SmutMonkey100

Skipped said:

SmutMonkey100 said:

Okay I am not sure if I am doing this right as I am pretty new to forum workings. Please bare in mind that I was made redundant without notice when the administrators got involved, I personally had very little time to do anything, my prior understanding was that we were looking for a new buyer and that we would continue trading. I did inform as many people as I could the hours after my departure, everything happened so fast, the day went, go to work, 2 hours later unemployed, 3 hours later on my way back home pretty shell shocked. With regard to instruments owned by customers that were at Tone World when the administrators took over. All belonged to there rightful owner, the staff left at Tone world would have made the administrators aware of this as they were not assets of the company, customers should have then been made aware of the situation and asked to collect there items. The problems arise if instruments have been sold prior to administration and customers had not been paid for these

OK.
Thank you sticking your head above the parapet to talk to us.
 We are sad that Manchester has lost a Music Retailer, but you have lost your job. I hope that your own personal circumstances get better in the near future.

Many thanks for your comment, I believe while I did not own the business that someone should at least try to help people understand what went wrong, and maybe answer some questions people have from an inside perspective.

shredguitarman

I have shopped at SG for many years, more than 20. Over the last few years it really did lose its way with competition from Guitar Guitar, Peach and World Guitars. Those companies seemed to move with the trends and made sure their online offering was first class - as well as investing in choice and range. Toneworld could have filled that gap but they seemed to lack the funding needed to increase their stock rotation and bring interesting products to their shop. Products seemed to sit around for ages with high demand products out of stock. It is a shame for Gary and the Toneworld team but I also feel for the SG team.. They have been left with no real expertise and really I wonder what future they will have in high end guitars - certainly their buying choices of late have indicated a lack of understanding of their customer base. I would suspect sales are significantly down. The real shame is that Gary and the SG team couldn't find a way of working together without Gary going his own way. In the end that failiure has led to one closed business and another whose standards, in my opinion, are I'm decline. As someone who buys stuff each year it looks like the aforementioned Peach, Guitar Guitar or World Guitars will get my custom.

Moltisanti

Gary is a good guy, i bought several guitars, amps and pedals from him over the last 15 years and it sucks that this has happened.

I don't know the details of the law suit, but the fact that his "dream" has ended like this is really shitty.

richardhomer

Moltisanti;165020" said:

Gary is a good guy, i bought several guitars, amps and pedals from him over the last 15 years and it sucks that this has happened.

I don't know the details of the law suit, but the fact that his "dream" has ended like this is really shitty.

This post sums up the situation perfectly for me too.

FretboardSpaghetti

AFAIK Gary was a director of SG and set up his new business while still working there then just left taking with Rick with him when it opened. I think he was married into the Lyons family though divorced some time ago and I could be wrong about that but it rings a bell. Net digging reveals 7 separate counts in the case of Gary vs Phil Lyons Enterprises Ltd were all found in favour of PLE/Sounds Great last year.
You can infer from that what you will.
Just for the record I have been a customer of both.

Skipped

If I wanted a high end Gibson or Fender guitar any time soon I would probably get on a train to visit Coda Music. And I suspect I am not alone in thinking that.
To have stock like that they must sell a lot of guitars. I wonder how many of them are sold to people who have travelled 100 miles or 200 miles. And I wonder how many people in Leeds or Manchester would buy a Custom Shop guitar if they were able to walk into a store offering a choice of 50 guitars?  On 24 months interest free credit?

shredguitarman

Skipped said:

If I wanted a high end Gibson or Fender guitar any time soon I would probably get on a train to visit Coda Music. And I suspect I am not alone in thinking that.
To have stock like that they must sell a lot of guitars. I wonder how many of them are sold to people who have travelled 100 miles or 200 miles. And I wonder how many people in Leeds or Manchester would buy a Custom Shop guitar if they were able to walk into a store offering a choice of 50 guitars?  On 24 months interest free credit?

I agree... To sell Fender, Gibson, PRS etc you've got to have a significant range / choice. Most of the big retailers in the NW haven't been able to do pull this off... Where is Guitar Guitar.. Please move into the North West !

Mystique

As someone who has lost a substantial cash deposit and an instrument on consignment sale, I can make a few comments. If the instrument was still under consignment sale after declaring Administration, the owner can reclaim the instrument as it is not an asset of the business. In my case it was apparently sold on Dec 31st. Therefore the sale was a part of Tone World's assets. They did not inform me of the sale, nor pass on the money. I was informed on the 9th Jan that the company was in administration, by the administrators. I had contacted the shop by telephone and email between Dec 31st and 8th Jan and my enquiries were not answered.

Comment: it is very odd, that looking at the website (now down) after administration was declared, ALL the used guitars were declared as 'sold'. Comment: was it not apparent on Dec 31st, when my consignment instrument was sold, that the business was heading for the rocks? What happened that ALL the used instruments were suddenly 'sold'? Why was I not informed of the sale?

Comment: on repeated questioning on whereabouts of my long-ordered and overdue instrument, on which I lost a substantial deposit. I KNOW I was lied to. I am not willing to say how I know this but it was independent verification. My losses are substantial. Needless to say I am not happy. Others have lost substantial amounts on consignment sales.

For information, the business appears to have closed down in Manchester and is now registered in Birmingham.

lustycourtier

Skipped said:

If I wanted a high end Gibson or Fender guitar any time soon I would probably get on a train to visit Coda Music. And I suspect I am not alone in thinking that.
To have stock like that they must sell a lot of guitars. I wonder how many of them are sold to people who have travelled 100 miles or 200 miles. And I wonder how many people in Leeds or Manchester would buy a Custom Shop guitar if they were able to walk into a store offering a choice of 50 guitars?  On 24 months interest free credit?

Dawsons in Liverpool has a massive selection of High end guitars.

Deijavoo

Dawsons in Liverpool do, unfortunately Dawsons in Liverpool is without any shadow of doubt a cretinous hive of ignorant, rude, arrogant, lying fuckholes. 

Only place I've ever made a formal complaint about. 

Granted this was 5 or 6 years ago, but shit sticks. 

Cacofonix

Edit:duplication

Fretwired

Mystique said:

For information, the business appears to have closed down in Manchester and is now registered in Birmingham.

Do you mean Tone World (UK) Ltd? It only has one director who wasn't involved in the original Tone World company.

RedRabbit

Fretwired said:

Mystique said:

For information, the business appears to have closed down in Manchester and is now registered in Birmingham.

Do you mean Tone World (UK) Ltd? It only has one director who wasn't involved in the original Tone World company.

Tone World Ltd's registered office is now in Birmingham.  Looks like Begbies Traynor are acting as administrators and have changed the registered office to their offices.

lustycourtier

Deijavoo said:

Dawsons in Liverpool do, unfortunately Dawsons in Liverpool is without any shadow of doubt a cretinous hive of ignorant, rude, arrogant, lying fuckholes. 

Only place I've ever made a formal complaint about. 

Granted this was 5 or 6 years ago, but shit sticks. 

 Oh, granted the staff are awful, but the new store is huge compared to the little old one. I still chuckle now when an entire rack of CS fenders fell of the wall. Took a Jagumarr with it causing decent damage. I wanted to buy it and he would only offer £50 off. There was chunks of paint the size of 50p's missing.

Deijavoo

This makes me very happy.  

Dolphin was waaay better, shame really.  Is Curly's still there too? 

lustycourtier

Curlys is, Dolphin I *think* is online only now. They were bad too. They once sold a guitar (shell pink strat) I had a deposit on to hold for an hour.

trolley

ToneControl said:

lustycourtier said:

Everytime anyone mentions all the NW guitar shops, they all neglect to mention Frailers, which I think is the best for interesting guitars. My last 5 or 6 have come from there...

I always tell people, it's an excellent shop. Can't see me getting my daughters to Runcorn to hit the shops though!

You can - but you might not get them back out again!

Shame that - I bought my Boogie from Rick when he was at Sounds Great, and I've just (at Xmas) px'd my son's SBMM JP50 for a PRS SE 7-string. As well as various pedals.

Shame really, because if you want to try out high end gear it's usually thin on the ground.

And PMT - you're not exactly spoilt for choice. It was better when it was ...whatever it was before!

Bloody Alzheimers

littlegreenman

Deijavoo said:

This makes me very happy.  

Dolphin was waaay better, shame really.  Is Curly's still there too? 

Dawsons does have a load of stock, but I'll always spend my money in Curly's if I can. Much nicer guys and far more knowledgable than the Dawsons store.