This is one talented & versatile player!

Strat_a_tat_tat

Lewy said:

Ah good. I'm not going ear mental.

'Ear mental'... yes, that's my new favourite phrase!

Sassafras

Why do people always expect guitarists to play exactly the way it's played on the record. Even the guys who wrote the stuff don't do that.
Dunno about anyone else but I can rarely play the same piece as an exact carbon copy.

mixolyd

Sassafras said:

Why do people always expect guitarists to play exactly the way it's played on the record. Even the guys who wrote the stuff don't do that.
Dunno about anyone else but I can rarely play the same piece as an exact carbon copy.

They don't expect that.  In this case the guy is trying to ace the solo and is going note for note until he gets sloppy.  If you go this close to a solo everyone knows then you have to nail it.  Like I wrote above Page would change bits all the times but they would be deliberate changes not just sloppy carelessness, there is an obvious difference.

Voxman

Strangefan said:

Haha you're the apitomy of why guitarists get a bad name,  can't stand other people more talented so have to put them down. 

You said exactly what I was thinking.  It's a shame some folk are so ungiving and insecure that they have to look for the bad instead of the good.  I dread to think how my poor home made vids would get anhialated. 

Anyway, I'm sure I'm nowhere near the standards of many folk here so to a poor pleb like me, I thought he's pretty good. 

Sassafras

Any sloppiness is easily explained by those huge industrial strength sunglasses. Can't be easy seeing where the guitar is let alone the fretboard through those bastards.
Still think he's pretty good. He can play stuff I wouldn't even attempt (or even like).

Sassafras

mixolyd said:

Sassafras said:

Why do people always expect guitarists to play exactly the way it's played on the record. Even the guys who wrote the stuff don't do that.
Dunno about anyone else but I can rarely play the same piece as an exact carbon copy.

They don't expect that.  In this case the guy is trying to ace the solo and is going note for note until he gets sloppy.  If you go this close to a solo everyone knows then you have to nail it.  Like I wrote above Page would change bits all the times but they would be deliberate changes not just sloppy carelessness, there is an obvious difference.

Page isn't a God. He can be just as sloppy as any of us.

mixolyd

What this thread has shown IMO is that despite this being a forum of guitar players, there is something of a lack of understanding of what makes a good rock solo performance among some here.

The guy linked in the OP would immediately be replaced by a session player if he turned up to record on a labels dime and played like that.  Many bands wouldn't accept that level of performance for weekend gigging.  This isn't about tearing the guy down - he isn't here - the OP put it up as a great video and most of us are disappointed.

A simple YouTube search immediately uncovers guys playing this solo at a much higher level.

First result:
This is how to do it.  Has a few small differences from the original but it stays tight and musical.  Can't say I like his tone very much but he gets both the content and the spirit of the original here.




Third result (sorry Marty, you tend to talk a lot so I skipped you) 



The best yet: great vibrato, great tone.  Plays with SNAP, same as Jimmy does.  Again there are a bunch of small changes from the original but they are musically correct and in the spirit of it so no bother there.

Looking at a few more I think those are the best two with a lot of views on YouTube, the others don't really nail it for one reason of another though a bunch are still better than the guy in the OP.
There's a Led Zep live video there also where the master himself shows how to improvise around a solo but it's a bit ad-infested.

Voxman

What you hear on albums is often after umpteen takes, with complex studio techniques and very often, unless you're like the Eagles, can never be replicated live.  You will never hear any version of Heartbreaker live with the album solo...because Page was so spaced out on drugs he could never remember how he did it. I can't play it exactly the same, but you'd recognise it and its probably better than some of JPs live renditions of the solo. 

Voxman

mixolyd said:

What this thread has shown IMO is that despite this being a forum of guitar players, there is something of a lack of understanding of what makes a good rock solo performance among some here.

The guy linked in the OP would immediately be replaced by a session player if he turned up to record on a labels dime and played like that.  Many bands wouldn't accept that level of performance for weekend gigging.  This isn't about tearing the guy down - he isn't here - the OP put it up as a great video and most of us are disappointed.

A simple YouTube search immediately uncovers guys playing this solo at a much higher level.

First result:
This is how to do it.  Has a few small differences from the original but it stays tight and musical.  Can't say I like his tone very much but he gets both the content and the spirit of the original here.




Third result (sorry Marty, you tend to talk a lot so I skipped you) 



The best yet: great vibrato, great tone.  Plays with SNAP, same as Jimmy does.  Again there are a bunch of small changes from the original but they are musically correct and in the spirit of it so no bother there.

Looking at a few more I think those are the best two with a lot of views on YouTube, the others don't really nail it for one reason of another though a bunch are still better than the guy in the OP.
There's a Led Zep live video there also where the master himself shows how to improvise around a solo but it's a bit ad-infested.

OK, so what you're saying is that if I thought that was good then I'm clueless and must be a crap player.  That's Ok, I know I'm just an average player..probably less than average by your standards.  But that's fine, I'm just an amateur pub/club player and could never be a really good pro level or session player ....but I still enjoy playing.  And compared to my meagre hamfisted skills I thought the guy was very good...so its all a case of degree.  I'll listen to the clips later as I'm only on my mobile but I'm sure I'll be suitably gobsmacked.  

There used to be a guy called Jun626 or something like that who I thought was fabulous. Never knew who he was but I think he was from Japan.  I'd give my left nut to play like him...regardless of what anyone else might think of him. 

mixolyd

@Voxman ;;;;;;

The mobile site keeps wrecking my posts when I hit submit.

Im sure you're not a crap player, well 95% sure!   

I think it's well worth being able to analyse and criticise a performance on any instrument - there's always something to be learned and one day you may have to give someone some direction or choose who to have in a band.

Yeah that jun626 guy is nailing Zep having had a quick peek.

Then there are the players who can take a song, turn it around and make it magical in a new way...

Lewy

Strangefan said:

Haha you're the apitomy of why guitarists get a bad name,  can't stand other people more talented so have to put them down. 

Respectfully, I think guitarists get a bad name far more because the average guitarist doesn't hold themselves to the same standard of musicianship as the average <insert other instrument here>ist, including matters of timing and intonation. You simply don't tend to find violinists and french horn players who are like "yeah, I know I didn't hit the notes but it was more about the vibe, yeah?" and you don't find pianists out there gigging who can't name what note they're playing. But those things do apply to a lot...perhaps even the majority...of guitarists who go out and gig. That's why guitarists get a bad name, not bitchiness.....that's present in all musical spheres. 

As for the dude in the video - he's out of tune a lot. So badly that I was questioning my own ear because no-one else seemed to have commented on it. That's not an unreasonable or irrelevant observation when someone is being offered up as a paragon of virtuosity.

Teetonetal

There's some funny stuff going on with his playing. It's not great. In stairway the end section of repeats is badly played and in comfortably numb his bends are out of tune.

Pretty much agree with @mixolyd

TimmyO

imho the OP vid is clearly technically very proficient, far more so than me, but he's "cruise ship good" not "rock band good" 

mixolyd

TimmyO said:

imho the OP vid is clearly technically very proficient, far more so than me, but he's "cruise ship good" not "rock band good" 

He has that speed and smoothness that players who tend to play with a lot of gain often have - notice that he's using a bit more gain than Pagey (on the live version Page uses almost no gain on the Stairway solo) and the covers I linked before.  That extra bit of gain makes things easier to play but it can also prevent you from hearing your weaknesses and improving if you do it all the time.

I have the opposite problem: on the rare occasions that I feel up to some serious playing I generally can't be arsed plugging in so I just sit on my bed and play unplugged which can hamper progress in its own way.  Don't be lazy kids!

Sassafras

None of those guys are as good as me.
I always hit exactly the right note at the right time and in the right place.
I'm bloody perfect.

Teetonetal

Sassafras said:

None of those guys are as good as me.
I always hit exactly the right note at the right time and in the right place.
I'm bloody perfect.

If you hold someone up in the way the OP did - then expect the flaws to get pointed out. Nothing more than a reaction to hyperbole.

koneguitarist

Better than me, (not saying a lot) but nothing special or worth the adulation of original poster. 

thebreeze

Lewy said:

Strangefan said:

Haha you're the apitomy of why guitarists get a bad name,  can't stand other people more talented so have to put them down. 

Respectfully, I think guitarists get a bad name far more because the average guitarist doesn't hold themselves to the same standard of musicianship as the average <insert other instrument here>ist, including matters of timing and intonation. You simply don't tend to find violinists and french horn players who are like "yeah, I know I didn't hit the notes but it was more about the vibe, yeah?" and you don't find pianists out there gigging who can't name what note they're playing. But those things do apply to a lot...perhaps even the majority...of guitarists who go out and gig. That's why guitarists get a bad name, not bitchiness.....that's present in all musical spheres. 

As for the dude in the video - he's out of tune a lot. So badly that I was questioning my own ear because no-one else seemed to have commented on it. That's not an unreasonable or irrelevant observation when someone is being offered up as a paragon of virtuosity.

I think it's about what inspires you.  Clearly this guy did it for Voxman and that's cool.  I think the guitar/electric guitar has always been different (and differently used/approached) to other kinds of instruments.  Like the harmonica, they were easy to pick up and fool around on.  None of those country blues guys gave much of a toss for what notes they were playing (in the technical sense of the thing) they just knew what they wanted to play and what sounded right - feel/vibe was (and is) the important thing.  Punk - Joe Strummer/Pete Shelley et al. came at it a different way but importantly they were saying just get up and play and don't get too hung up on scholarship (unless you want to).

There's a thread recently about sloppy guitarists.  You wouldn't want a world without Keef now would you?

Lewy

thebreeze said:

Lewy said:

Strangefan said:

Haha you're the apitomy of why guitarists get a bad name,  can't stand other people more talented so have to put them down. 

Respectfully, I think guitarists get a bad name far more because the average guitarist doesn't hold themselves to the same standard of musicianship as the average <insert other instrument here>ist, including matters of timing and intonation. You simply don't tend to find violinists and french horn players who are like "yeah, I know I didn't hit the notes but it was more about the vibe, yeah?" and you don't find pianists out there gigging who can't name what note they're playing. But those things do apply to a lot...perhaps even the majority...of guitarists who go out and gig. That's why guitarists get a bad name, not bitchiness.....that's present in all musical spheres. 

As for the dude in the video - he's out of tune a lot. So badly that I was questioning my own ear because no-one else seemed to have commented on it. That's not an unreasonable or irrelevant observation when someone is being offered up as a paragon of virtuosity.

I think it's about what inspires you.  Clearly this guy did it for Voxman and that's cool.  I think the guitar/electric guitar has always been different (and differently used/approached) to other kinds of instruments.  Like the harmonica, they were easy to pick up and fool around on.  None of those country blues guys gave much of a toss for what notes they were playing (in the technical sense of the thing) they just knew what they wanted to play and what sounded right - feel/vibe was (and is) the important thing.  Punk - Joe Strummer/Pete Shelley et al. came at it a different way but importantly they were saying just get up and play and don't get too hung up on scholarship (unless you want to).

There's a thread recently about sloppy guitarists.  You wouldn't want a world without Keef now would you?

You are of course 100% right...people like what they like and good luck to them. 

But this guy isn't improvising...or feeling around for inspiration...or swaggering around a stage presenting a piece of rock n roll theatre, or singing at the same time, or actually doing anything particularly expressive in the way any of the people you and others have mentioned on this thread do. He's not suddenly overcome with adrenaline because of a crowd reaction, or because he's feeding off another player who's killing it. He's not giving a visceral Son House-style expression of self. 

In my book any and all of this things get you some slack when it comes to precision. But there's a big difference between that...and not being in tune when you're sat down doing nothing other than playing someone else's solo note for note to a backing track.

It's Tom Waits' birthday today (well technically yesterday at the time of writing)....a more masterful exponent of artful sloppiness you won't find. But emphasis on the artful.

Danny1969

Mmmm I watched the first few solo's and I concur with some of the previous comments ... not great, to be honest I play with people every week in pubs who can ape those solo's better than that in terms of notes and phrasing. 
It's mainly the phrasing that's wrong, as if the guys not that familiar with the material .... and some of the bends are dodgy. 
Easy for me to say though being old and having heard and played  those solo's more times than a younger person would have