The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

underdog

ICBM said:

capo4th said:

The slim difference is between the two manifestos. 

One is real the other is a laughable joke that will never be implemented.

One is real and the other is a laughable joke that will never be implemented… because it contains nothing of any substance anyway and will be u-turned on faster than you can say Dementia Tax if the Tories do get back in.

Right now the real choice is vote Tory and continue to get fucked or vote labour in the hope half of what they promise is possible to deliver.

I hope the majority of the UK refused to go the "better the devil you know" route.

capo4th

underdog said:

ICBM said:

capo4th said:

The slim difference is between the two manifestos. 

One is real the other is a laughable joke that will never be implemented.

One is real and the other is a laughable joke that will never be implemented… because it contains nothing of any substance anyway and will be u-turned on faster than you can say Dementia Tax if the Tories do get back in.

Right now the real choice is vote Tory and continue to get fucked or vote labour in the hope half of what they promise is possible to deliver.

I hope the majority of the UK refused to go the "better the devil you know" route.

So if Jeremy throws enough shit policies at a wall some of them may stick.  

Sums up the Labour approach in 2017

ICBM

capo4th said:

So you stupidly support terrorists remaining in this country and not deporting them? 

Why would you not not support this action? We need to take a stand against these religious nuts.

Personally I would rather put them in a boat and send it back where it came from.

 I would rather increase the resources needed to monitor them properly, and when they're found to have committed an offence, charge, convict and jail them in this country. We already have robust laws to deal with them, we don't need to tear up human rights legislation - which is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge.

capo4th

Good plan lets keep monitoring them until they kill people great strategy 

ICBM

The problem is entirely that they aren't being monitored - which may or may not be due to lack of resources... you choose who you believe.

capo4th

If they are on the radar they need to be deported. Zero tolerance to these religious idiots. 

littlegreenman

capo4th said:

ICBM said:

May now says she will tear up human rights laws in order to deport terrorists...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/theresa-may-will-not-let-human-rights-act-stop-bringing-new/

Very typical of the sort of authoritarian stupidity she seems to specialise in. She was trying this sort of thing for years when she was Home Secretary, and was constantly blocked by the courts, rightly.

So you stupidly support terrorists remaining in this country and not deporting them? 

Why would you not not support this action? We need to take a stand against these religious nuts.

Personally I would rather put them in a boat and send it back where it came from.

I put that idea forward at work recently after a similar rant, more for shits and giggles but it was surprising how much support it had.

Imagine how surprised the descendants of Irish Catholic terrorist nutters were when I included them amongst those to be deported?

"But, but, we're not terrorists, we only supported and funded the *Freedom Fighters* who blew up English innocent men, women and children", and besides, we're white and speak English. It's not the same at all...

capo4th said:

Good plan lets keep monitoring them until they kill people great strategy 

Yeah, we did that a lot in the 70's and 80's and people still died.

Next?...

CloudNine

The fact that all the religious nuts aren't monitored fully is not a resource issue. It would be completely impossible, even given 100x the current resources.

ICBM

capo4th said:

If they are on the radar they need to be deported.

Where to? A lot of them are British.

capo4th

Clearly the monitoring needs to be improved.

Mr Butt worked and was employed by London Underground shortly after he appeared on the Jihadis next door program.

Legionreturns

capo4th said:

The slim difference is between the two manifestos.

One is real the other is a laughable joke that will never be implemented. Therefore Corbyn is lying to the electorate with promises that can never be achieved.

You're not exactly shedding any light on what specifically you are contesting in the Labour manifesto? Dismissing the entire document as "a laughable joke" isn't debating, it's just stating an opinion without any evidence to back it up.

For example:

Point: The Conservative manifesto (again) states that they will aim to get immigration down to a net of 100,000. (Or "In the tens of thousands, instead of the hundreds of thousands") Therefore Theresa May is lying to the electorate when she says this.

Evidence: Theresa May is lying to the electorate because this has been in the last two manifestos with no progress in the reduction of immigration.

https://fullfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Migration-to-and-from-UK-migobs.png

Explain: Whilst the government may not have much control over EU migration, because of the free movement agreement, they have had little impact on the non EU figures for migration despite divisive policies such as not letting migrants bring their spouse to the country unless they earn more than £18,600 p/a. Therefore we cannot take any manifesto promise to meet this target as anything other than pandering to UKIP voters for a few extra votes.

"Failure to meet the target was driven by both EU and non-EU migration. If EU net migration had remained at 2010 levels, the level would still have been more than double the target." - Source ONS & Full Fact (https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-migration-policy-2010-general-election/)

For the record, PEE (Point, Evidence, Explain) is a GCSE level english method that students have to become familiar with from the age of about 14. I'm sure you can manage better than that. I'm happy to give you a few more examples given half an hour with the Conservative Manifesto and a laptop. 

Legionreturns

capo4th said:

If they are on the radar they need to be deported. Zero tolerance to these religious idiots. 

That kind of comment on a public forum could actually put you on a radar... Where should we deport you to?

It's a lot harder to monitor and build relationships with communities when you've got 20,000 fewer police officers to do the job. A fact pointed out to Theresa May by the Police and dismissed as scaremongering. Doesn't look like scaremongering now does it? 

Imprisoning / Deporting someone because you think they might be a bit shifty is not a power I want in the hands of any government, let alone the current one. That has echoes through history

Fretwired

ICBM said:

capo4th said:

So you stupidly support terrorists remaining in this country and not deporting them? 

Why would you not not support this action? We need to take a stand against these religious nuts.

Personally I would rather put them in a boat and send it back where it came from.

 I would rather increase the resources needed to monitor them properly, and when they're found to have committed an offence, charge, convict and jail them in this country. We already have robust laws to deal with them, we don't need to tear up human rights legislation - which is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge.

Nice idea, but impossible. There are 20,000+ on the database and 500+ of significant interest who didn't include the recent terrorists - so this list should be higher. An ex-MI5 officer thinks you need at least 30 officers per suspect which means 5,000 would require 15,000 officers and 20,000 would require 600,000.

I have some sympathy for May and the Human Rights Act - four of the Rochdale grooming gang are having their appeals against deportation funded by the tax payer. They claim their right to a family life is at threat - the scum should be sent back to Pakistan. The local Asian community thinks this is the right thing to do ... however they have successfully appealed against deportation and the there will be a final court case.

underdog

capo4th said:

underdog said:

ICBM said:

capo4th said:

The slim difference is between the two manifestos. 

One is real the other is a laughable joke that will never be implemented.

One is real and the other is a laughable joke that will never be implemented… because it contains nothing of any substance anyway and will be u-turned on faster than you can say Dementia Tax if the Tories do get back in.

Right now the real choice is vote Tory and continue to get fucked or vote labour in the hope half of what they promise is possible to deliver.

I hope the majority of the UK refused to go the "better the devil you know" route.

So if Jeremy throws enough shit policies at a wall some of them may stick.  

Sums up the Labour approach in 2017

The other choice is what, continue to watch the NHS decimated, watch our police force cut to a point dealing with crime is impossible, continue to watch benefits taken off people who need and deserve them, continue to make nice with (and sell arms to) countries that are funding terrorists in our country?

underdog

capo4th said:

If they are on the radar they need to be deported. Zero tolerance to these religious idiots. 

Deported to where? I'm not sure you can deport UK nationals to anywhere other than the UK you know?

littlegreenman

Fretwired said:

ICBM said:

capo4th said:

So you stupidly support terrorists remaining in this country and not deporting them? 

Why would you not not support this action? We need to take a stand against these religious nuts.

Personally I would rather put them in a boat and send it back where it came from.

 I would rather increase the resources needed to monitor them properly, and when they're found to have committed an offence, charge, convict and jail them in this country. We already have robust laws to deal with them, we don't need to tear up human rights legislation - which is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge.

Nice idea, but impossible. There are 20,000+ on the database and 500+ of significant interest who didn't include the recent terrorists - so this list should be higher. An ex-MI5 officer thinks you need at least 30 officers per suspect which means 5,000 would require 15,000 officers and 20,000 would require 600,000.

I have some sympathy for May and the Human Rights Act - four of the Rochdale grooming gang are having their appeals against deportation funded by the tax payer. They claim their right to a family life is at threat - the scum should be sent back to Pakistan. The local Asian community thinks this is the right thing to do ... however they have successfully appealed against deportation and the there will be a final court case.

Revoking their citizenship and deportation is difficult, but should be the plan. Right to a family/ private life and protection under Article 8 has already been voluntarilarily ceded by their behaviour, IMHO of course.

Cirrus

I found myself driving into Birmingham for a practice and out of curiosity swung past the rally. Massive police presence on the surrounding streets but no roads were blocked off so I drove right past the sizeable crowd (It felt like 2-3,000 to me but I really don't know how to judge crowd sizes) while Steve Coogan was talking, parked on some double yellows (the police very much looked like they had more important stuff to deal with) and trotted over to join in.

Corbyn started his speech about 5 mins before I had to get back in the car and go to practice, but I liked what I heard. He's a very confident and compelling public speaker and the audience (a diverse mix of students and familes, sadly very few warmongering old men) were in great spirits. Felt like I was part of something and was reluctant to drive off.

I've never been more certain of my voting decision. I still have concerns about Abbot, Mcdonnel and a general lack of standout front-benchers in waiting, but I believe Corbyn will be a good PM with the kind of balanced, progressive thinking and actions that actually make the world better while all the hard line knee-jerkers piss and moan.

Not that I think Labour will actually win on thursday, but I'll be so happy if the incompetent tories get a bloody nose.

capo4th

ICBM said:

capo4th said:

If they are on the radar they need to be deported.

Where to? A lot of them are British.

A Guantanamo style camp on a remote Scottish island 

octatonic

Rise, like lions after slumber

In unvanquishable number!

Shake your chains to earth like dew

Which in sleep had fallen on you:

Ye are many—they are few!

capo4th

littlegreenman said:

Fretwired said:

ICBM said:

capo4th said:

So you stupidly support terrorists remaining in this country and not deporting them? 

Why would you not not support this action? We need to take a stand against these religious nuts.

Personally I would rather put them in a boat and send it back where it came from.

 I would rather increase the resources needed to monitor them properly, and when they're found to have committed an offence, charge, convict and jail them in this country. We already have robust laws to deal with them, we don't need to tear up human rights legislation - which is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge.

Nice idea, but impossible. There are 20,000+ on the database and 500+ of significant interest who didn't include the recent terrorists - so this list should be higher. An ex-MI5 officer thinks you need at least 30 officers per suspect which means 5,000 would require 15,000 officers and 20,000 would require 600,000.

I have some sympathy for May and the Human Rights Act - four of the Rochdale grooming gang are having their appeals against deportation funded by the tax payer. They claim their right to a family life is at threat - the scum should be sent back to Pakistan. The local Asian community thinks this is the right thing to do ... however they have successfully appealed against deportation and the there will be a final court case.

Revoking their citizenship and deportation is difficult, but should be the plan. Right to a family/ private life and protection under Article 8 has already been voluntarilarily ceded by their behaviour, IMHO of course.

Deportation for the Muslim child rapists in Rochdale ?

 Line em all up and shoot the lot of em save the legal fees