NGD - Not as described by seller (Fretboard member)

TeleMaster

Oh yea. I remember this guy. Messed me around with a trade. Came on strong, wanted to do the deal and then just went radio silent.

Glad I didn't do it now. Could've been anything wrong with the thing. 

chenzman

TeleMaster said:

Oh yea. I remember this guy. Messed me around with a trade. Came on strong, wanted to do the deal and then just went radio silent.

Glad I didn't do it now. Could've been anything wrong with the thing. 

Doesn’t give me much hope of hearing back from him then  

TeleMaster

chenzman said:

TeleMaster said:

Oh yea. I remember this guy. Messed me around with a trade. Came on strong, wanted to do the deal and then just went radio silent.

Glad I didn't do it now. Could've been anything wrong with the thing. 

Doesn’t give me much hope of hearing back from him then  

It may well be innocent, and I hope you do hear back from him. 

chenzman

I hope you’re right, just strange he hasn’t responded

Winny_Pooh

IMHO, I would probably miss those bits of wear if selling it myself. I barely notice things like that because I never go looking for them in the first place. 
The seller should not list it 'as new', that's not accurate or right. But at the same time, you are very picky about a used guitar, obsessing about tiny marks (seller might even wonder if you put the dents there), and the Lols on your post reflect this. 

Moloch

So, I've dealt with the seller in question on three occasions, with no problems at all. We're not friends, but we've done deals amicably. That's the 'full disclosure' part done.

With regard to this, it's a mixed bag you have presented there.

On the setup, I can tell you that he likes his action medium to high. I've traded two guitars with him and wound up lowering the action on both. It's a matter of personal taste.

The neck pocket cracks are the real issue and need to be addressed. I suppose it's possible that he himself didn't notice them. My experience trading with him is that he gives a guitar a quick once-over, plays it a bit and decides on the spot. If that's also how he is as an owner I can imagine him not spotting them. The second picture especially is so indistinct that I honestly can't see anything, but the crack in the first should really be noted and mentioned by a seller.

Where the complaint starts to go awry is with the other stuff. The pickup paint issue is a little unsightly, but not something that I would personally give more than a shrug to. Not great form to not mention it, but it's comfortably within what I would consider to be the realm of acceptability when buying a second hand guitar.

The dents... You're not doing yourself any favours there. You mention one that can be felt while playing, so I'll take your word for that and say that that's definitely not ideal, even though I can't even see it in the picture. However, throwing in pictures of those two piddling little indentations at the first fret is comical. They're so miniscule that I had to lean in close to my monitor just to be sure of what I was looking at. I get that you're disappointed with the guitar's condition and with regard to the neck pocket cracks I can see why, but adding those in just makes it look like you're trying to add weight to the complaint by throwing in every tiny thing that you can think of. If anything it does the opposite (which is, I assume, why some have given the 'LOL' response to the original post), It comes across as you being, at best, somewhat anally retentive and at worst a little calculating.

So, basically:

*The setup is what it is. Personal taste and easily changed.

*The dents are, visually at least, a nothingburger.

*The paint dent on the pickup is not ideal and should have been mentioned, but is really minor.

*The neck pocket cracks are something that should have been mentioned and, to be honest, the only part of the complaint that I can (and do) take seriously.

For that last important part alone though, you're due a response from him and, if there is no satisfactory explanation for those cracks, a refund upon return.

KrisGee

From your pics it defo doesn't look as unmarked, IMO seller has described it inaccurately. If I was him I'd accept a return and apologise.

However... If those issues were described in his ad I'd still be ok to pay £1400 for the guitar as I think it's worth the money. 
Also I wouldn't mention setup as an issue. 90% of guitars I bought online in the past were described as "perfectly setup" and they played like crap before I set them up myself.
Good luck resolving it!

CeeJay

. deleted

ten77guitar

Difficult one. The ‘issues’ are so minor that I don’t think they would have any impact on the value of the guitar or the likelihood of it selling so I doubt that the seller intentionally tried to device you about the condition. 

It does seem like he has made the mistake of using a word like “unmarked” when he didn’t need to. Some dealers, eg Richtone Music, don’t even provide descriptions of their 2nd hand gear, presumably to avoid their words being used against them. They just list some pictures and a vague overall condition, eg. “Very good”. However, they of course would accept a return within 14 days. In this context, it does seem like you’re being a bit picky but that  doesn’t excuse the seller ignoring you though.

Adey

Is it just me who gets frustrated by this regular "trial by social media"? Not just here but across many forums.

People pile in on both sides and it all gets very much out of hand and unpleasant.

Maybe the Modmins could move these items to a newly created "Gripes" section that is behind a paywall for all but the aggrieved parties?

Win/Win?

:-) :-)

Boromedic

Things like this can easily be avoided by sellers not listing things as new or unmarked unless they really are. I've had people sell stuff on eBay etc. as immaculate and clearly their definition of that word is very different to mine, unfortunately that's the way of the world. 

Flip side is, £1400 is a good price for a Luke III even with the problems you mentioned. The neck pocket cracks should have been disclosed, but they are common-ish on Music Man guitars, as the necks are usually very snug fitting. 

It's also bad form not to message you back too, but there could be reason. I'm not piling on either side here but there's hopefully room to get it sorted. Good luck!

bgmartinsbridge

First time I've seen an open forum lynching on a purchased item on here.

Agree, mods should maybe get involved in terms of this being in public. 

I don't believe mods should actually get involved in the deal, that's not what they're here for imo. 


Also think the seller has made a mistake by saying - 'It's in fantastic unmarked condition, as new'. 

A tiny tweek to the words and I think you wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

Bought new in December.
Hardly played.
Superb condition. 
Includes all accessories and case. 
Bargain price. 

mort

A timely reminder to never use PayPal gift for this kind of amount unless you know and trust the seller 100%.

ten77guitar

Adey said:

Is it just me who gets frustrated by this regular "trial by social media"? Not just here but across many forums.

People pile in on both sides and it all gets very much out of hand and unpleasant.

Maybe the Modmins could move these items to a newly created "Gripes" section that is behind a paywall for all but the aggrieved parties?

Win/Win?

:-) :-)

The OP chose to go public with it. It’s a guitar forum. The clue is in the word “forum”.

Boromedic

In fairness to the OP I can see his frustration as he has tried to talk to the seller but he's refused to respond. Probably felt there was little else he could do, and he wanted to see what others opinions were. The seller should have got back to him really.

impmann

Sorry you aren’t happy and it bad form that he hasn’t responded but...

Set up is personal. You can’t moan about that because it may have been ‘perfect’ for the PO’s playing style.
Dents in the neck. Sorry but I genuinely can’t understand the issue. If you can feel those while playing, I’m surprised and they are tiny. They may also have been there from new, they are that small.
Paint loss on the pickup top. Perhaps should have been called out but... really?
Lacquer cracks in the neck pocket - again should have been mentioned but rarely anything other than unsightly. The price of it was very competitive imho even allowing for this.

Id suggest that rubbishing a FB member on this forum isn’t going to help your cause. There is a feedback area, including somewhere for bad feedback- perhaps this thread would be better placed there.
As mentioned above trial by social media isn’t a good idea. If you are so incensed by the ‘damage’, get in your car and turn up on their doorstep demanding a full refund and return the guitar. If that’s too much effort then it’s really not worth making a fuss about imho... 

My (possibly slightly harsh) opinion.

Vibetronic

chenzman said:

CMW335 said:

Can’t help myself but ask, if you wanted the guitar without those issues your Looking at another £900 assuming you paid £1400. Are those little marks really worth that much in the grand scheme? Appreciate he has said new and unmarked in his description but those marks are so minor I would believe the seller likely didn’t even notice them. 

I did want the guitar without those issues yes, they were not noted so didn’t expect them to be there irrelevant of the cost. If they were noted, especially the neck pocket cracks (which I cannot seem how you would miss) I wouldn’t have brought it, simple. Obviously I seem to be expecting too much, like honesty 

It's not stuff I'd be bothered about but yes, he should probably get back to you out of politeness and may well still do. I've sold things before - thinking I've gone over the guitar in detail so it'll be as described - but have missed stuff...it's easy to do. I did it on the last guitar I sold - laid it out on a desk in bright sunlight so I could see every ding, and completely forgot that the input jack connection was a bit loose as I hadn't played it for ages until just before I was about to send it off. I told him as soon as I remembered and all was well.

He may have other stuff going on in his life so could just not have seen your messages yet, which imo is the most likely explanation why you haven't heard back. None of the issues you've pointed out are things I'd be at all bothered by, but I completely understand why you are, everyone is different...hopefully he'll be in touch soon. 

TeleMaster

impmann said:

Sorry you aren’t happy and it bad form that he hasn’t responded but...

Set up is personal. You can’t moan about that because it may have been ‘perfect’ for the PO’s playing style.
Dents in the neck. Sorry but I genuinely can’t understand the issue. If you can feel those while playing, I’m surprised and they are tiny. They may also have been there from new, they are that small.
Paint loss on the pickup top. Perhaps should have been called out but... really?
Lacquer cracks in the neck pocket - again should have been mentioned but rarely anything other than unsightly. The price of it was very competitive imho even allowing for this.

Id suggest that rubbishing a FB member on this forum isn’t going to help your cause. There is a feedback area, including somewhere for bad feedback- perhaps this thread would be better placed there.
As mentioned above trial by social media isn’t a good idea. If you are so incensed by the ‘damage’, get in your car and turn up on their doorstep demanding a full refund and return the guitar. If that’s too much effort then it’s really not worth making a fuss about imho... 

My (possibly slightly harsh) opinion.

Dents in the neck would annoy me if they weren't disclosed. They can be hard to pick up in the pictures but can definitely be noticeable. It seems quite clear cut to me. 

The listing said 'It's in fantastic unmarked condition, as new'

You can't defend the sale when it's got lacquer cracks, paint off here and there, dents in the neck. No matter how small that's not UNMARKED is it?

The seller may well have overlooked these issues as they can be subjective or maybe he missed them, and I'm not making a judgement on him, but it's quite clear in my mind that he should be speaking to the buyer promptly to sort out the issues. 

Philtre

TeleMaster said:

Oh yea. I remember this guy. Messed me around with a trade. Came on strong, wanted to do the deal and then just went radio silent.

Glad I didn't do it now. Could've been anything wrong with the thing. 

Funny you should say that.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/2474362/#Comment_2474362

Never arrived, strange shenanigans, poor communication, eventually refunded after several messages.

chenzman

Wow, just read some of these comments, seems like I’m the one on trial here for buying something that clearly wasn’t as listed, I thought that was on the seller? Why shouldn’t I be unhappy with it? Some people i see have agreed, so I’m not the only one who would expect things as listed.

I came here for advise after privately trying to contact the seller 5 times to discuss with him. This forum has always been a great place to buy, seek advise and generally chat to like minded people, I thought seeking advise would be the same.

Whether this seems trivial to others is fair enough, however it’s not to me, I am perfectly in my right to have that opinion

Thanks to those people laughing at my expense, cheers