NGD - Not as described by seller (Fretboard member)

Paul_C

chenzman said:

Thanks @Paul_C I’ll be honest I didn’t see the mark on the pickup so that’s at my expense.

My point is if I was selling a guitar as unmarked/new condition it would be exactly that and would not have these issues. If these issues were noted, I would not have brought it, now I’m left feeling the fool

I was actually pointing out that as the mark could be seen in the original pictures it was already in less than perfect condition.

I once bought a "new" power amp from someone on ebay that arrived a little bashed up, but on closer inspection of the carefully cropped photos on ebay you could see he was trying to hide the evidence that it left him already a little bashed up, so I got a partial refund off him.

chenzman

Dominic said:

Poor form for seller not to respond whatever the cause........and no excuse for that,
but ,you sound to me like you should not venture into the secondhand market......you seem incredibly picky and would be best off paying the full up retail and buying new .Honestly.if you expect 100 per cent mint you could probably fault 90 % of the "new"stock in any guitar shop.......on balance, you saved £1000 buying used and it's still worth every penny .
These issues are incredibly minor.....all Musicman guitars suffer that micro poly cracking around the neck and he should have pointed that out but the fretboard dents are so minor he's probably never even noticed them.it's a nothing.

@Dominic I have brought/sold many guitars and guitar related items over the years. A fair amount had some kind of marks or issues that were noted at point of sale, I have accepted and lived with or resolved. I never expect items to be mint/new unless advertised as so, which it was.

The difference being with all of those items, was I had a choice I was able to make before buying them, on this occasion I didn’t

Rich31k

“It's in fantastic unmarked condition, as new”

That should be the end of it. It isn’t in fantastic unmarked condition, as new.

If it was such a bargain, it shouldn’t have needed the superlatives to sell it. 

stonevibe

skunkwerx said:

prlgmnr said:

stonevibe said:

I'd say buy new guitars, if minor blemishes bug you this much. 

From some retailers.

I want to lol and wis because... well you all know why ha!

Yeah, but again if these minor blemishes really bug you or you are OCD then you would visit the store in person, play the guitar, inspect it and then buy that very guitar.

If you rely on buying online, then you would have 14 days distance selling regs on your side.

However, if you buy a used guitar even if it says 'as new' then you really have very little to complain about, especially if it is clearly stated it has been used during a recording session and owned for three months.

It is not new and has been used.

Again, just my opinion.

prlgmnr

I don't really know why anyone ever sticks their neck on the line by describing something as "as new"/"mint".

WiresDreamDisasters

ten77guitar said:

Why should a private seller be held to a higher standard? 

Because there is zero recourse when things go wrong, unlike with a shop.

Chezman is basically at the will of the seller now, and the seller would have known this.

chenzman

stonevibe said:

skunkwerx said:

prlgmnr said:

stonevibe said:

I'd say buy new guitars, if minor blemishes bug you this much. 

From some retailers.

I want to lol and wis because... well you all know why ha!

Yeah, but again if these minor blemishes really bug you or you are OCD then you would visit the store in person, play the guitar, inspect it and then buy that very guitar.

If you rely on buying online, then you would have 14 days distance selling regs on your side.

However, if you buy a used guitar even if it says 'as new' then you really have very little to complain about, especially if it is clearly stated it has been used during a recording session and owned for three months.

It is not new and has been used.

Again, just my opinion.

I’m not OCD or believe I am an unreasonable person with irrational expectations, I just expected the guitar to be as advertised. 

I am more than happy to live with blemishes if I know about them, before making the decision to buy

Strangefan

I really hate the over used phrase caveat emptor but unfortunately for anyone buying privately it rings true, there is no recourse here, 

Dominic

If the seller is half decent he will "undo" the deal .......simple as that
but I still think your expectations are a bit unrealistic for the secondhand market
it's not brand spank ......thats why you save £1000
Can't really have your cake and eat it

TINMAN82

TeleMaster said:

Strangefan said:

Could the neck cracks not have occurred in transit? 

Yea they could have. Something for the seller to take up with the courier.

Again, communication would help a lot in this situation. 

What are the couriers possibly going to say or do about minor neck pocket poly cracks that may or may not have been there before transit?! These are common aesthetic issues with bolt on neck guitars. It’s nothing to do with them unless the item arrives with obvious damage to the box or hard case. Literally no case to answer.

Agree it’s not new and unmarked however, so the seller takes some responsibility. That said £1400 seems a very fair price, in fact a pretty great deal.

chenzman

Dominic said:

If the seller is half decent he will "undo" the deal .......simple as that
but I still think your expectations are a bit unrealistic for the secondhand market
it's not brand spank ......thats why you save £1000
Can't really have your cake and eat it

Great deal yes, if as described. Would have been nice to be able to choose what ‘Cake’ I wanted to eat though right?

chenzman

TINMAN82 said:

TeleMaster said:

Strangefan said:

Could the neck cracks not have occurred in transit? 

Yea they could have. Something for the seller to take up with the courier.

Again, communication would help a lot in this situation. 

What are the couriers possibly going to say or do about minor neck pocket poly cracks that may or may not have been there before transit?! These are common aesthetic issues with bolt on neck guitars. It’s nothing to do with them unless the item arrives with obvious damage to the box or hard case. Literally no case to answer.

Agree it’s not new and unmarked however, so the seller takes some responsibility. That said £1400 seems a very fair price, in fact a pretty great deal.

There’s one thing I can’t knock and that was the packaging, it was well packed using original packaging. I doubt any of the issues were caused during transit

skunkwerx

Seller spent £2k odd on a guitar. 

In December. 

Played it once. 

Kept it months. 

Sold for a £1000 loss 3 months later. 

Seems legit. 

FreddieVanHalen

Strangefan said:

I really hate the over used phrase caveat emptor but unfortunately for anyone buying privately it rings true, there is no recourse here, 

I'm not sure that's correct in law. There is a published advert stating X. Guitar is demonstrably not X.

Whether there is practical recourse (i.e. is it worth trying to make or enforce a claim) is another thing...

TINMAN82

chenzman said:

Dominic said:

If the seller is half decent he will "undo" the deal .......simple as that
but I still think your expectations are a bit unrealistic for the secondhand market
it's not brand spank ......thats why you save £1000
Can't really have your cake and eat it

Great deal yes, if as described. Would have been nice to be able to choose what ‘Cake’ I wanted to eat though right?

But now you do know what the cake looks like. You have an opportunity to cool off, step back objectively and analyse whether, in fact, the price you paid was value for money. Descriptions aside, it seems that you paid what the guitar was worth (or even less) had the description included the minor cosmetic blemishes you’ve found.

You’ll add worse dents than those within a couple of months/years of regular playing. If you’re a collector looking for a perfect wall hanger then new is probably the way to go, or at least don’t buy sight unseen from the classifieds.

ten77guitar

WiresDreamDisasters said:

ten77guitar said:

Why should a private seller be held to a higher standard? 

Because there is zero recourse when things go wrong, unlike with a shop.

Chezman is basically at the will of the seller now, and the seller would have known this.

Of course there is. You can use PayPal goods to pay for the item in the first place. Or if you didn’t do that and the seller refuses to help or doesn’t respond you can file a claim against them through the small claims court. There’s also ‘publicly’ shaming them into action on this forum. It might involve some hassle but there is some recourse.

Also in my experience some dealers are not much better anyway when there’s a problem.

Strangefan

FreddieVanHalen said:

Strangefan said:

I really hate the over used phrase caveat emptor but unfortunately for anyone buying privately it rings true, there is no recourse here, 

I'm not sure that's correct in law. There is a published advert stating X. Guitar is demonstrably not X.

Whether there is practical recourse (i.e. is it worth trying to make or enforce a claim) is another thing...

That's not really the case, however I did think the same but  after doing some research it seems like there is nothing you can do legally as it's down to you to ensure the product you buy is satisfactory.
unless its fraud or a scam whcih this isn't as it's Interpretation. 

fandango

No mention of playability or tone? It seems that the whole point of a guitar to play and make some noise has been chucked out of the window because of a few cosmetic issues on a used guitar.

Yeah, i'd be disappointed with the hairline cracks, but if it plays well and has stable tuning, I'd get over it. Especially if I saved ££££ on a new guitar.

Adey

I think that really the best way to sort this cataclysmic mess out properly, without the opinions of armchair forum lawyers, is to go to a solicitor, and explain to him how you feel that you have been taken advantage of.

He will charge you a few hundred pounds to write to the seller, who may or may not help come up with a solution.

If you get no satisfaction, you can go to court and a judge will rule what is reasonable. You and/or the other party will have a much bigger bill, but at least it will be settled.

I think that this is the way to go as otherwise we are just dealing with conjecture.

And when it has all been properly, legally settled, perhaps the OP can come back here and tell us what the outcome was.

Strangefan

Adey said:

I think that really the best way to sort this cataclysmic mess out properly, without the opinions of armchair forum lawyers, is to go to a solicitor, and explain to him how you feel that you have been taken advantage of.

He will charge you a few hundred pounds to write to the seller, who may or may not help come up with a solution.

If you get no satisfaction, you can go to court and a judge will rule what is reasonable. You and/or the other party will have a much bigger bill, but at least it will be settled.

I think that this is the way to go as otherwise we are just dealing with conjecture.

And when it has all been properly, legally settled, perhaps the OP can come back here and tell us what the outcome was.

LOL I'm pretty sure something illegal needs to occur before any of that happens...