Bedroom Dealers/Flippers

JerkMoans

impmann said:

TBH, money is a pretty vile thing and makes vile people do even more vile things just to line their own pockets. 

Radix malorum est cupiditas...

DrCornelius

We’ve had a few similar threads @Hattigol ao I’m repeating myself here but fwiw I agree with you 

I think there are a big chunk of people here that see the Fretboard as a community , not just an extension to Gumtree.

I’m definitely in that camp and when it comes to selling a guitar on here I try and sell it for as little as I’m comfortable with, not as much as I can . I don’t mean at a loss or that I’m an angel but I
like the idea of doing a favour for someone else in the community and that someone will do the same for me down the line.

I missed out of an LsL yesterday which was no big deal as I just never played one and fancied trying it.  I had 2 messages from regulars on here when they saw me trying to nab it asking for dibs. That’s how this place should work, I buy a great guitar at a good price and then when I’m done someone else here gets it for the same great price.

If that LSL was a keeper I would have sold something on here cheap as a thank you to the community for the good deal I just got.

When bedroom dealers hoover up stuff (and Im not saying that’s what happened on the LSL) then there is no added value to the community as they don’t recognise the community - to them this place is just a resource and a profit centre.

Fiftyshadesofjay

I don’t care about people flipping stuff I’ve sold to them to make a profit. It can be pretty annoying if you’re in the market for something and it gets snapped up, only to appear for sale at twice the price a few days later, especially if it’s a fairly rare.

Ultimately though -

It’s just gear.
You’re not really entitled to anything.
It’s their problem really as they never sell at those stupid prices.

AlexO

This issue has really started to nark me off.

I haven’t got an issue with anybody making a quick few quid, that’s the world and what makes it go round.

My issues being that it’s taking guitars away from genuine musicians who can only shop on the used market. ( anyone who’s heard me play will know I’m not taking about myself )

I put a guitar up for sale. Let’s say I advertise guitar for £800. I mostly get messages of “dealers” offering £500.
Lots of sob story’s etc.

I end up selling said guitar for around that price. Next day it’s listed in all the usual places for £1100.
It sits there for months not my problem now.

I then have £500 to spend on another guitar and you try finding one when every fucker is a dealer!

I’ve come away from all the Facebook groups now as I’ve not helped the problem being such an impatient git!

markblack

I'm on a watch forum and it's locked to people who aren't part of the 'community' so it keeps the flip for profit guys away a bit.

It was kind of a gentlemen's agreement that you didn't make a profit. Kept watches in the community... Pitchforks came out if rules got broken

I'm not saying a locked sales forum is right.

I'd happily sell something below what i could get on eBay as long as whats goes around comes around. But its hard to get people to play by the rules... There's always one

DrCornelius

So what do we do ? (if the majority agree something should be done)

Maybe the last post on a sold thread should be something like ‘Sold to DrCornelius for £1400’ or ‘swapped with Jerk Moans for a Rickenbacker’ so we have absolute transparency?

Ben_McCarthy

DrCornelius said:

So what do we do ? (if the majority agree something should be done)

Maybe the last post on a sold thread should be something like ‘Sold to DrCornelius for £1400’ or ‘swapped with Jerk Moans for a Rickenbacker’ so we have absolute transparency?

Wouldn’t be such a bad idea but then again, it’s a bit intrusive 

joeyowen

Can we all just shout out to the dudes out there who will buy a 2k guitar, tell their wife it is to make money, then list it at 3k.

It's a win win.

Make 1k
Keep the guitar


Respect the hustle

Schnozz

I only care if they buy up all the niche stuff and almost create a whole new price for gear, like the boy with the shite eyebrows from Essex.

For example a Yamaha SG2000 was £1250 and then suddenly became £2000, purely due to a Scottish bedroom dealer buying 90% of them.

Other than that, I couldn't give a monkeys - Good luck to ya.

JezWynd

DrCornelius said:

So what do we do ? (if the majority agree something should be done)

All meet at the crossroads clutching something pointy?

JerkMoans

JezWynd said:

DrCornelius said:

So what do we do ? (if the majority agree something should be done)

All meet at the crossroads clutching something pointy?

Are BC Riches commanding a premium on the flippage market?

DrCornelius

JezWynd said:

DrCornelius said:

So what do we do ? (if the majority agree something should be done)

All meet at the crossroads clutching something pointy?

Dean Razorback battle to the death ?

ennspek

£150 for a trem arm!!!!

I often get offers of 50% sale price. Just people trying it on.

Not that I sell stuff often.

StefB

What I’d like to see is a master list, preferably stickied, of the aliases these wankers use. I say wankers as that’s what they are if they use an alias to peddle their sob stories. 

I don’t have too much of an issue with the guys that are honest and upfront about it, it’s difficult to have a beef with that and good luck to them. 

I sold an American Select Tele on eBay this week and had some clot (eBay username vapour_trails) message offering £300 less than the Buy it Now within two hours of the 30 day listing going live. His feedback confirmed it was pretty much a buying account only and left me to muse which of the usual suspects it was. I hadn’t even made the Best Offer option available. 

I know had I capitulated that it would have reappeared a couple of days later for £800 - £900 more than my price with stars and adjectives such as ‘sublime’ in the title. 

To me those type of blaggers are no better than ticket touts so it would be nice to have some kind of list members who this issue does piss off can contribute to and check if in doubt. 

Additionally the stupidly inflated prices a lot of them charge does tie up and make a lot of decent used guitars unobtainable for people unwilling/unable to pay over the odds. 

A lot of the stock sits unsold indefinitely on the sales channels, usually just waiting to be rehashed via the next available £1 eBay deal, and as some posters have already said I’d love to know how these chancers can afford to have £thousands of stock sitting around forevermore. 

jaymenon

bgmartinsbridge said:

This is more to do with the pretend dealers.

Here's an example from Bogner Regis man.. 

Sold for £2100
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193684263309

Listed the next day for £3195
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203144284764

He's adding absolutely zero value and has no shop - but appreciate you could say the same for Amazon!

My view is these guys are now buying absolutely anything and everything that appears nice or fairly priced, hence the lack of decent guitars up for sale. 

Agree its market forces and they're not actually doing anything wrong unless they don't pay tax - and I've sold to dealers myself. I just feel that we're now seeing saturation and its incredibly obvious. 

This is an interesting thread - and I too was irritated to see a Warmoth guitar bought for £499 (because the seller wasn't smart enough to advertise it as parts, and a couple of days later the guy who snapped it up, dismantled it and sold as parts.

Neck for £370
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warmoth-Rosewood-Fender-Stratocaster-Neck-/333674272716?hash=item4db08957cc:g:BxQAAOSwQDZfJ8eW&nma=true&si=hQI3tJRVgqACveQHW91TFjmON%2BY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Body (without pickups) for £255
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warmoth-Fender-Stratocaster-VIP-Semi-Hollow-Guitar-body-/333674288624?hash=item4db08995f0:g:A9wAAOSwOqZfJ8wG&nma=true&si=hQI3tJRVgqACveQHW91TFjmON%2BY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Pickups - he'll make another £80 or so

Total profit: £200 on a £500 guitar (that's 40%)

But the two transactions that @bgmartinsbridge quoted above:

The guy won it fair and square in an auction for £2100
If he hadn't bid, it would have gone to the next highest bidder possibly at a much lower price.

- It sold for £2100
- If there was only one other serious bidder and from £1800 upwards it was just these two bidders against each other
- If you take the winner's bids out, then the next guy would have got if for £1800
- Poor original seller would hav made £300 less

It's then the winner's prerogative to sell it on for whatever he thinks he can get for it.

gazrichards

I’ll be honest - I do it. I even started a thread on here saying I was doing it and why and how. 

I’ve never bought on here to sell. You guys are enthusiasts and “know better”. Most of the stuff I’ve had has been guys that have stopped playing and it’s lived under the bed for 3 years. 

I do sell on this forum but obviously rather than me being a parasite that clogs up the sales pages, I’m selling good gear and I advertise it here for cheaper than I do on Marketplace or reverb. 

At this stage in the game that I’m at, most of the time I’m getting stuff to try it out. I get it at a reasonable price with the intention of keeping it (if I like it) or moving it on and trying something else. 

I think if I’m cleaning and setting a guitar up, demoing it, making a video, taking better pictures and listing in cleverly in all the right places I deserve to take that bit of cream off the top. 

I won’t lie, I’ve had some super deals come my way and I would challenge all of you to turn down the Gibson les Paul’s for £400 etc (which again, I got to try and if I didn’t like I sell on or trade)

I’ve actually sold on this forum to see the same guitar on eBay for £500 more before (a guitar I sold to them for £450 profit anyway so I wasn’t complaining) 

Side note
There was actually a big hoo hah the other day when a notorious bedroom dealer (that’s been mentioned in other posts before) was made the admin of a big fender buy and sell group on Facebook. That seemed like it was asking for trouble!

guitars4you

Hattigol said:

I’m sure I am not the only one who is getting pretty sick of bedroom dealers/flippers. People who buy guitars or other gear purely with a view to selling on within a short period of time and at a significant mark-up. It is really hard to find good-priced guitars at the moment on Ebay, Gumtree or anywhere – anything even slightly below market value is snapped up straight away by a relatively small group of people who then content to hoard it whilst advertising it at crazily inflated prices.

Should we be naming and shaming them here? I think we can all name a few of them. I think it would be fair to let anyone names here have right of reply and people should really be sure of their ground before naming anyone. Rule 1 still applies…

Maybe connected - I've have never found it so hard to buy guitars for stock as it is now

Very simply here is my theory

Guitar is worth say £1500 to sell - I would want to pay £1000 - Customer in normal circumstances wants £1200, maybe take £1100 - But to much hassle to sell on Reverb/E-Bay etc and he is to busy - So will accept my price as fair

Now the customer is on fulough or works from home - Hence more time - Hence he'll try his hand at £1200 ish 

joeyowen

My main issue is the Facebook groups, who only have approved posts.

What this can mean (not always)  is that the people running the group get first dibs on everything.  They are 50% checking the listing is fair, but 50% getting first refusal on deals.  The listing higher later on.

I'm mad, because I didn't think of it.

CountryDave

gazrichards said:

(edit)

Side note
There was actually a big hoo hah the other day when a notorious bedroom dealer (that’s been mentioned in other posts before) was made the admin of a big fender buy and sell group on Facebook. That seemed like it was asking for trouble!

I saw this too. There are plenty of bedroom dealers who are admins on many of the Facebook groups.
I’ve sold a few bits through them and the names that approve the posts are familiar as regular flippers.
Even had an lowball offer on something before it was approved.

fretmeister

If I've sold something at a price I'm happy with then that ends my interest in that item.
I have no moral / equitable / legal interest in that item anymore. It's not mine.

Maybe I wanted a quicker sale for whatever reason. Maybe I just wanted the space in the house. Doesn't matter. I agreed to sell it. If they sell it for more the next day - good luck to them.

If the buyer then sells it for more then good luck to them. The ONLY buyer motivation I care about when I sell an item is that they want to give me a sum of money that I am happy to accept.

Similarly if I buy something then the previous owner gets no say over what I do with it. Play it, modify it, burn it on a bonfire, or even just sell it. It's mine now and I'll do with it what I want. I have used items that I bought on a whim that I ended up loving and keeping for decades. I've also decided a very expensive used bass was not for me within 3 days and sold it on and made a couple of quid.

That's the bit that most complainers forget - that if they want to somehow control what happens with something that is no longer their property, then the same happens to them when they buy something too. And a response suggesting control / moral damnation if acceptable only when the price goes up and not down is childlike reasoning.

None of us have to sell something at a price we don't like and none of us have to buy something at a price we don't like.