Bedroom Dealers/Flippers

merlin

soma1975 said

I would rather drink bleach than use Gumtree tbf.

A while ago and old friend of mine tried to kill himself by drinking bleach.

I'd rather use Gumtree every day for the rest of my life than go through what he went through. 

Adey

soma1975 said:

It's weird. I have things sitting on here for an eternity at good prices and not a sniff and it goes instantly for more on ebay, but then loads of times I have had pedals up here and they have sold within an hour of posting. 

The ads section in here isn't particularly slick. It isn't easy to search for something you want, or even just browse stuff.

People have to rely on bumping their stuff to the top of the list every few days (anyone fancy a Laney IRT amp? Just about to get bumped, you just watch!)

Strangefan

merlin said:

soma1975 said

I would rather drink bleach than use Gumtree tbf.

A while ago and old friend of mine tried to kill himself by drinking bleach.

I'd rather use Gumtree every day for the rest of my life than go through what he went through.













Are you new to the Internet? 
Why would you even respond to that turn of  phrase  with this comment?

Do you really think @soma1975 was being disrespectful at people who have tried to drink bleach? 

soma1975

For the record I Adey said:

soma1975 said:

It's weird. I have things sitting on here for an eternity at good prices and not a sniff and it goes instantly for more on ebay, but then loads of times I have had pedals up here and they have sold within an hour of posting. 

The ads section in here isn't particularly slick. It isn't easy to search for something you want, or even just browse stuff.

People have to rely on bumping their stuff to the top of the list every few days (anyone fancy a Laney IRT amp? Just about to get bumped, you just watch!)

You can search and in more options put last month. 

Bridgehouse

I do have strong opinions about this actually, and they come from the perspective of the forum and the community we have here.

Moderating the forum may sound like fun - believe me, it isn’t. The modmins do it because it’s a fantastic community and a great way of giving back. 

But in reality the majority of our time is spent either stopping spammers/scammers/dealing with new applications or moderating the classifieds.

The classifieds are a free to use service. I want it to stay that way. But people intentionally trying to make a profit nefariously out of a service that requires my free time to run frankly fucks me off. 

LPManic

This is probably one of the worst threads I’ve ever read on here. 

Bridgehouse

LPManic said:

This is probably one of the worst threads I’ve ever read on here. 

You need to read a lot more threads then......

Bridgehouse

Adey said:

soma1975 said:

It's weird. I have things sitting on here for an eternity at good prices and not a sniff and it goes instantly for more on ebay, but then loads of times I have had pedals up here and they have sold within an hour of posting. 

The ads section in here isn't particularly slick. It isn't easy to search for something you want, or even just browse stuff.

You can get a full refund if you’re not happy.

However, the rate of sale is more likely to be due to the much smaller audience. On average we have around 2-3k regular viewers per day. I suspect eBay has more like 1-2m per day for similar subsections...

mrkb

Bridgehouse said:

I do have strong opinions about this actually, and they come from the perspective of the forum and the community we have here.

Moderating the forum may sound like fun - believe me, it isn’t. The modmins do it because it’s a fantastic community and a great way of giving back. 

But in reality the majority of our time is spent either stopping spammers/scammers/dealing with new applications or moderating the classifieds.

The classifieds are a free to use service. I want it to stay that way. But people intentionally trying to make a profit nefariously out of a service that requires my free time to run frankly fucks me off. 

But you should get a warm fuzzy feeling from helping someone get a high end guitar for £140.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrvWjRA80rM&t=8s

Bridgehouse

mrkb said:

Bridgehouse said:

I do have strong opinions about this actually, and they come from the perspective of the forum and the community we have here.

Moderating the forum may sound like fun - believe me, it isn’t. The modmins do it because it’s a fantastic community and a great way of giving back. 

But in reality the majority of our time is spent either stopping spammers/scammers/dealing with new applications or moderating the classifieds.

The classifieds are a free to use service. I want it to stay that way. But people intentionally trying to make a profit nefariously out of a service that requires my free time to run frankly fucks me off. 

But you should get a warm fuzzy feeling from helping someone get a high end guitar for £140.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrvWjRA80rM&t=8s

Yep, the same warm fuzzy feeling I’d get if I’d just shat myself. 

TTony

guitars4you said:

So to generate some business I joined FB and listed some gear for sale - @Ttony had asked me a few times to join, but for whatever reason I had not

Hey @guitars4you - don't try to drag me into this for the blame


Seriously, you were completely transparent about your role when joining, and since joining you have contributed a lot of knowledge, wisdom and advice to the community, and offered a fair few daft deals to the membership too - as well as donating stuff for forum-funding-raffles.


I think the issue here is with the hidden bedroom flippers.  They contribute nothing (see below for caveat).


The forum started as a bunch of mates, who mostly knew each other.  Gear changed hands at mates' rates, and often circled round the community at those mates' rates.  Stuff was bought and sold on trust.  Stuff was sent before being paid for.  Stuff was loaned to a member-in-need.    Sometimes stuff was just given away.

As the forum grew, others joined who didn't subscribe to the same community ethos.   Fair enough, they weren't part of the original group, and there were no rules to stop them buying/selling and doing it for their benefit rather than the community's benefit.

Here's the caveat ... you could argue that they provide a service to the community (ie cash to sellers) whether with add sob-story or not.   You could argue that case, and it'd be true.  Accepted.

But the downside is that they take gear out of circulation within the forum and sell it off for personal profit elsewhere.    The mates' rates deals disappear.  And everyone becomes a little suspicious of who they're dealing with.  The community ethos weakens - and that affects the whole forum, not just the Classifieds.

I'd argued for years that "we should do something" about that, to protect the community aspect.  To retain the free Classifieds as a benefit for our "real" members rather than a resource for the drive-by flippers (who contribute nothing else) to mine.  Good to see that Lee is going to bite that bullet.

But be aware that if the flippers get excluded, then stuff will get harder to shift, and it will probably have to priced more finely. 

Back to  mates' rates.

Tenebrous

soma1975 said:

munckee said:

soma1975 said:

It's weird. I have things sitting on here for an eternity at good prices and not a sniff and it goes instantly for more on ebay, but then loads of times I have had pedals up here and they have sold within an hour of posting. 

Because of the limits of who sees it here you have to rely on either selling someone has either decided they want and are wanting to come up, or selling something they didn’t even know they want until they see it. 

Pedals I find sell easily enough on here guitars and amps sell much quicker on  Gumtree. 

I would rather drink bleach than use Gumtree tbf.

Is it really that bad for people? I listed a guitar on there earlier in the week. Fast forward to today & a lovely guy travelled 180 miles to come pick it up. Sold more guitars through there than anywhere else, & I can't recall a single bad experience.

Skipped

mikeyrob73 said:

I’m a bit like @DrCornelius in that I have bought loads and sold loads on here, I can’t say I have ever really made a profit, I have however got to play many great guitars, met some lovely people 
had multiple transactions with the likes of @CountryDave @rlw ;; 
I have sold a couple of guitars elsewhere that made a tiny profit but anything I bought on here I have always offered up at the same price when selling, it hasn’t always sold on here tho. 

Does that make me a “flipper” ? 

No. You are not a flipper.

I think just chatting with people.....for 10 years.....gives a pretty strong indication of:  Who is a dealer. Who has GAS.  Who just loves guitars. Who occasionally makes an impulse purchase which was a mistake. That is why I tend to avoid all of the other marketplaces.

gazrichards

mrkb said:

Bridgehouse said:

I do have strong opinions about this actually, and they come from the perspective of the forum and the community we have here.

Moderating the forum may sound like fun - believe me, it isn’t. The modmins do it because it’s a fantastic community and a great way of giving back. 

But in reality the majority of our time is spent either stopping spammers/scammers/dealing with new applications or moderating the classifieds.

The classifieds are a free to use service. I want it to stay that way. But people intentionally trying to make a profit nefariously out of a service that requires my free time to run frankly fucks me off. 

But you should get a warm fuzzy feeling from helping someone get a high end guitar for £140.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrvWjRA80rM&t=8s

Wow! I’m really taking the heat here aren’t I!
again, I was transparent about my intentions, even made a thread on here about it and updated it with my dealings. And everyone I dealt with on that run is very happy with their purchases or trades. 

For example - I gave @Treewig  a s2 prs for that baudier that had been around the forum loads. I traded that with a bricks and mortor dealer plus cash for the duesey. 

I sold a musicman  on this forum for a grand to a guy (@leiversalone or something) he put it on eBay a day later for £1600. 

And I love that duesenberg!!!!

Bridgehouse

gazrichards said:

mrkb said:

Bridgehouse said:

I do have strong opinions about this actually, and they come from the perspective of the forum and the community we have here.

Moderating the forum may sound like fun - believe me, it isn’t. The modmins do it because it’s a fantastic community and a great way of giving back. 

But in reality the majority of our time is spent either stopping spammers/scammers/dealing with new applications or moderating the classifieds.

The classifieds are a free to use service. I want it to stay that way. But people intentionally trying to make a profit nefariously out of a service that requires my free time to run frankly fucks me off. 

But you should get a warm fuzzy feeling from helping someone get a high end guitar for £140.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrvWjRA80rM&t=8s

Wow! I’m really taking the heat here aren’t I!
again, I was transparent about my intentions, even made a thread on here about it and updated it with my dealings. And everyone I dealt with on that run is very happy with their purchases or trades. 

For example - I gave @Treewig  a s2 prs for that baudier that had been around the forum loads. I traded that with a bricks and mortor dealer plus cash for the duesey. 

I sold a musicman  on this forum for a grand to a guy (@leiversalone or something) he put it on eBay a day later for £1600. 

And I love that duesenberg!!!!

It’s all about intention though..

The classifieds were set up to allow members of the community an opportunity to buy, sell and trade gear that they either had or wanted in the course of their playing. 

If you buy something in order to make a profit and then list it on here quite clearly with a markup - and thus the intention is to make a profit then we will pull the ad and you’ll likely lose classifieds access. 

And that’s the point I was making. The modmins time in managing the classifieds is given freely to let players get the gear they want or sell the gear they no longer want. We don’t give up our time to give traders an outlet to make a profit and avoid the fees you find elsewhere. 

Whether you started a thread, stated what you were doing or took out a 3 page ad in the Telegraph, I would ask you whether any ad you place is in the spirit of the community 

The sad fact is, if the hidden trader thing carries on and continues to cause us hassle and we don’t change the rules then we may just end up pulling the classifieds completely for our own sanity.

Barquentine

Are sob stories common ? I was selling a guitar last year and I did get one guy who wanted it for free and gave some elaborate story of woe. 

Bridgehouse

Barquentine said:

Are sob stories common ? I was selling a guitar last year and I did get one guy who wanted it for free and gave some elaborate story of woe. 

More common than you probably realise. 

mcsdan

to lighten things a tad...I'm sure some of you remember Kev "nocaster" from the musicradar days. He was the ultimate flipper albeit not for profit. When I was selling my fender bassman he snapped it up within 20 mins of posting the for sale thread. He subsequently sold it again about 4 hours later, even though it hadn't been sent to him yet, for the same price he'd paid me. He just went through lots of gear and really was the ultimate GAS man.

I buy/sell a few bits here and there over the years and have had a few lowball offers which you can just say no to. I'm sure on here we are more aware of the price of gear so no need to accept stupid lowball bedroom dealer offers and likewise no need to pay their prices either. The market will even out the pricing when they are unable to sell and have a shed load of stock in their bedrooms.  Physical gear is only worth what the market will pay. 

I'd welcome seeing some restictions on who can access the classifieds, retaining the community aspect of the forum and some security in knowning members history/names as opposed to newly joined members.  If all you want to do is buy/sell gear then there are better places for that - gumtree, fb, ebay.reverb etc but the biggest aspect of the forum is the community.

gazrichards

Bridgehouse said:

gazrichards said:

mrkb said:

Bridgehouse said:

I do have strong opinions about this actually, and they come from the perspective of the forum and the community we have here.

Moderating the forum may sound like fun - believe me, it isn’t. The modmins do it because it’s a fantastic community and a great way of giving back. 

But in reality the majority of our time is spent either stopping spammers/scammers/dealing with new applications or moderating the classifieds.

The classifieds are a free to use service. I want it to stay that way. But people intentionally trying to make a profit nefariously out of a service that requires my free time to run frankly fucks me off. 

But you should get a warm fuzzy feeling from helping someone get a high end guitar for £140.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrvWjRA80rM&t=8s

Wow! I’m really taking the heat here aren’t I!
again, I was transparent about my intentions, even made a thread on here about it and updated it with my dealings. And everyone I dealt with on that run is very happy with their purchases or trades. 

For example - I gave @Treewig  a s2 prs for that baudier that had been around the forum loads. I traded that with a bricks and mortor dealer plus cash for the duesey. 

I sold a musicman  on this forum for a grand to a guy (@leiversalone or something) he put it on eBay a day later for £1600. 

And I love that duesenberg!!!!

It’s all about intention though..

The classifieds were set up to allow members of the community an opportunity to buy, sell and trade gear that they either had or wanted in the course of their playing. 

If you buy something in order to make a profit and then list it on here quite clearly with a markup - and thus the intention is to make a profit then we will pull the ad and you’ll likely lose classifieds access. 

And that’s the point I was making. The modmins time in managing the classifieds is given freely to let players get the gear they want or sell the gear they no longer want. We don’t give up our time to give traders an outlet to make a profit and avoid the fees you find elsewhere. 

Whether you started a thread, stated what you were doing or took out a 3 page ad in the Telegraph, I would ask you whether any ad you place is in the spirit of the community 

The sad fact is, if the hidden trader thing carries on and continues to cause us hassle and we don’t change the rules then we may just end up pulling the classifieds completely for our own sanity.

There’s never been a sob story and the only guitar I’ve bought and tried to sell on here was the baudier. When I got it, I planned on keeping it. Had it for 6 months but in the end put it into my trading to get the duesey. 

If I buy on here it’s to keep. I sell stuff on here that I’ve taken in trade elsewhere but all of it is reasonably priced and good. 

3 of the guitars I’m selling now all have comments in the thread such as “great price” “good deal” etc
i would argue I’m not the bedroom dealer you guys should have an issue with. The day I buy something on here and then relish at profit you can delete my account cos I’m not about that!!!

Bridgehouse

gazrichards said:

Bridgehouse said:

gazrichards said:

mrkb said:

Bridgehouse said:

I do have strong opinions about this actually, and they come from the perspective of the forum and the community we have here.

Moderating the forum may sound like fun - believe me, it isn’t. The modmins do it because it’s a fantastic community and a great way of giving back. 

But in reality the majority of our time is spent either stopping spammers/scammers/dealing with new applications or moderating the classifieds.

The classifieds are a free to use service. I want it to stay that way. But people intentionally trying to make a profit nefariously out of a service that requires my free time to run frankly fucks me off. 

But you should get a warm fuzzy feeling from helping someone get a high end guitar for £140.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrvWjRA80rM&t=8s

Wow! I’m really taking the heat here aren’t I!
again, I was transparent about my intentions, even made a thread on here about it and updated it with my dealings. And everyone I dealt with on that run is very happy with their purchases or trades. 

For example - I gave @Treewig  a s2 prs for that baudier that had been around the forum loads. I traded that with a bricks and mortor dealer plus cash for the duesey. 

I sold a musicman  on this forum for a grand to a guy (@leiversalone or something) he put it on eBay a day later for £1600. 

And I love that duesenberg!!!!

It’s all about intention though..

The classifieds were set up to allow members of the community an opportunity to buy, sell and trade gear that they either had or wanted in the course of their playing. 

If you buy something in order to make a profit and then list it on here quite clearly with a markup - and thus the intention is to make a profit then we will pull the ad and you’ll likely lose classifieds access. 

And that’s the point I was making. The modmins time in managing the classifieds is given freely to let players get the gear they want or sell the gear they no longer want. We don’t give up our time to give traders an outlet to make a profit and avoid the fees you find elsewhere. 

Whether you started a thread, stated what you were doing or took out a 3 page ad in the Telegraph, I would ask you whether any ad you place is in the spirit of the community 

The sad fact is, if the hidden trader thing carries on and continues to cause us hassle and we don’t change the rules then we may just end up pulling the classifieds completely for our own sanity.

There’s never been a sob story and the only guitar I’ve bought and tried to sell on here was the baudier. When I got it, I planned on keeping it. Had it for 6 months but in the end put it into my trading to get the duesey. 

If I buy on here it’s to keep. I sell stuff on here that I’ve taken in trade elsewhere but all of it is reasonably priced and good. 

3 of the guitars I’m selling now all have comments in the thread such as “great price” “good deal” etc
i would argue I’m not the bedroom dealer you guys should have an issue with. The day I buy something on here and then relish at profit you can delete my account cos I’m not about that!!!

If you read my reply carefully, I never said you were a bedroom dealer.

I asked you to consider the intentions and spirit of the community before listing.

If we thought you were a bedroom dealer you’d have lost your classifieds access by now.