Bedroom Dealers/Flippers

Bridgehouse

rossi said:

I  always thought buying cheap and selling higher was called business.I often buy cheapies on Gumtree and sell for more .I am not buying high or even medium price stuff but I usually  turn clear  100% profit .My keeper so far is a 30 quid Vintage zip which I really  like  .My best buy is a free Marshall MG10  which I like far better on cleans than I should .

Frankly if I could buy a guitar and make a very large profit I would .If the seller cant be bothered to check what the guitar actually might fetch  I certain cant be bothered to tell  them .I would love to meet all the moaners on this thread and buy their houses for what they paid for it .

Off the forum anyone can do what they like. In fact, I’d agree that on sites where you pay for the privilege to list, sell, buy etc. then it’s as you say, business. 

Business involves a transaction. We don’t provide this forums classified service with any fees - so it’s not a business. It’s here for members to supplement the community. The forum doesn’t exist for the classifieds, they are an extra benefit provided FOC for the good of the community. 

We have to invest time and effort to keep them running. If anyone wants to take advantage of my (and the other modmins) time and effort to make a quick profit then please, do try it. You’ll have your classifieds access removed and you’ll be shown the door.

Bridgehouse

JerkMoans said:

Bridgehouse said:

JerkMoans said:

Bridgehouse said:

JerkMoans said:

How then would I satiate my desires to meet middle aged men in windswept grimy truck stops the length and breadth of the land?  

Grindr?

One's tastes run to the more 'niche'...  

Mature_Grindr?

I KNEW I recognised you from somewhere.

Your office mate.. that’s where you recognise me from. Your office...

Oh, and you look totally different to that picture you sent me. Much smaller....

rossi

I dont actually sell or buy anything on here .Just saying .

Hattigol

Dear me, the anger from some folks about people daring to be irked by bedroom dealers...

Come on guys, get that venom out 

Bridgehouse

rossi said:

I dont actually sell or buy anything on here .Just saying .

Weren’t implying you personally had tried to make a profit - just saying.

Strangefan

I think people are getting confused there is nothing wrong with making some cash from a bargain buy, we all would do that if we can, the issue is the sob story/not being honest / and trying to convince a buyer to sell it for less so they can make a profit.

DrCornelius

Strangefan said:

I think people are getting confused there is nothing wrong with making some cash from a bargain buy, we all would do that if we can, the issue is the sob story/not being honest / and trying to convince a buyer to sell it for less so they can make a profit.

To be honest SF I've never been given a sob story in my nearly 5 years on here.   I can solve my own problem by pricing my stuff on here at Ebay prices in future. I price things low as a thank you to the community for everything I've learned on here,  the friendships I've made and because I like the idea of someone on here benefitting from it (and of course help me in the same way down the line).

My frustration is more in bedroom dealers taking out and not putting back in, thats my issue

Bridgehouse

Guys, it’s really very simple.

The classifieds are provided FOC
We can’t intervene in sales that go sour, but the flip side to that coin is we will do all we can to protect members from scammers, disguised traders, and dishonest people.

This is all about honesty.

Things that are not cool:

- Giving over a sob story to get a cheap deal to then list it here or elsewhere for more money - not cool, profiteering.
- Lowballing offers and cajoling a seller into a sale just so you can flip it elsewhere for profit. Not cool
- Not saying you are a trader - buying low and then selling elsewhere. The forums expressly don’t allow trade sales, but for purchases, be honest and declare you are a trader
- Attempting to sell on here as a trader (whereby we define as selling something expressly for a profit - not something you have owned for a while and is worth more than you paid for it) - not cool, against the rules 

Things that are cool:

- Buying something ridiculously cheap on eBay and selling here at market rate as long as you are honest and say that’s what’s happened - be honest. 

- Stating you are a trader when offering on a sale. Be honest.

If you are honest everyone will know your intentions. If you don’t declare it, you’re being dishonest. It’s as simple as that. 

DB1

No,I've not been given a sob story on here either - to be honest, the pleasure of chatting to, and dealing with the people that I've met from this forum far outweighs the pleasure of making a few quid out of it.

No issues off-forum though, and I'll happily deal with anyone as long as they're straight with me whether they make a profit or not.

mikem8634

Nobody (I think) is saying that capitalism/business/profit are inherently 100% appaling. It's just that it's a bit like swearing your head off. Some places it's appropriate and some places it just fucking isn't.

Bridgehouse

mikem8634 said:

Nobody (I think) is saying that capitalism/business/profit are inherently 100% appaling. It's just that it's a bit like swearing your head off. Some places it's appropriate and some places it just fucking isn't.

We just want people to be completely honest when they are being a capitalist profiteering bastard. 

UnclePsychosis

DB1 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

I've never quite understood why people get so upset about someone buying something from them and relisting elsewhere for more.

Either... 

1. The higher price is completely unrealistic and they'll have a pig of a time trying to shift it, in which case what are you worrying about?

Or... 

2. You dramatically undervalued it in which case maybe you should have put some more effort into your own sale. 

Now, dishonesty and sob-stories get my goat up as much as anyone else but equally we're talking about luxury items here. Has to be a pretty strange sob story when it comes to why you need a discount on a CS Strat. 

I think the main issue is the 'spirit of the forum'. If people buy and sell at profit (or in my case, loss) off forum, no problem. On here, though, there seems to be a pretty good spirit among most people buying and selling, and - personally - I like that about the place. We could, I'm sure, have made hundreds of pounds by taking the guitar away from the forum and selling elsewhere, but to me, that's taking the piss and spoiling things rather.

I did have one chap (eBay-related) travel a fair way and offer me a few hundred quid less for a guitar, but I was happy enough to do that, it was just what he wanted, he was an enthusiast for that type of guitar and we had a good old chat and a coffee. Two days later, it was up for £300 more using the eBay £1 offer. Stuff like that gets to me, because I feel that my good (I hope) nature has been taken advantage of.

On the other hand, a well-known dealer who doesn't enjoy universal popularity on these pages contacted me about a guitar that I was selling, told me who they were, agreed a price, collected it and listed it for £500 more. No problem at all.

So, for me, the spirit of things is important, which is why I'd prefer to buy and sell on here than anywhere else.

Yeah but it's not just "the forum" that gets upset about this. 

People get riled up about eBay, gumtree, facebook sales just as much. For some reason (lots of) guitarists are absolutely fucking obsessed with what other people do with their own possessions. 

Now, I don't want to be misinterpreted - i never buy to flip and on the occasions when I've got mates rates on here I've returned the favour if moving it on again. Dishonesty is not cool, period. But honestly, if I sell something the next guy can do literally whatever he wants with it. If I wanted a say in what happened to it I wouldn't be selling it. 

bgmartinsbridge

Honestly don't think this thread is aimed at fretboarders in general.

Its the 1%ers, er Boris!

Isnt it more about the unscrupulous Gumtree and Facebook traders, who are busy 'buying facebook groups' to get first dibs or taking over gumtree whilst not paying vat because they don't make enough (honest) and pay self assessment tax through their business instead. 

Certainly don't have an issue with small dealers buying stock, as that's how the world goes round. Should they be transparent? - that's a tough one.. 

I once sold a guitar on ebay to guitarguitar.
Only realised I was dealing with a Director when I recognised his shop address.
Appeared about grand higher later in the week. Did he need to tell me, absolutely not and tbh I was happy my guitar sold. 

Bridgehouse

bgmartinsbridge said:

Certainly don't have an issue with small dealers buying stock, as that's how the world goes round. Should they be transparent? - that's a tough one.. 

On here no, it’s not a tough one at all. Not only is it in the classifieds rules that traders can’t list, but in the joining-up rules it clearly states traders should contact the modmins to state they are such. 

Not tough at all. If anyone is a trader and they do business on here without letting us modmins know then they are breaking the rules. End of.

bgmartinsbridge

@Bridgehouse - yes, totally agree. Not on here and yes, dealers should 100% be totally transparent on here. 

My worry here is that we move from a musicians community to an ebay extension. 

The forum is a wealth of stonking members and experience ;-)

(And yes, I noticed I'd put an awful pun there but thought I'd leave it!). 

CMW335

bgmartinsbridge said:

Honestly don't think this thread is aimed at fretboarders in general.

Its the 1%ers, er Boris!

Isnt it more about the unscrupulous Gumtree and Facebook traders, who are busy 'buying facebook groups' to get first dibs or taking over gumtree whilst not paying vat because they don't make enough (honest) and pay self assessment tax through their business instead. 

Certainly don't have an issue with small dealers buying stock, as that's how the world goes round. Should they be transparent? - that's a tough one.. 

I once sold a guitar on ebay to guitarguitar.
Only realised I was dealing with a Director when I recognised his shop address.
Appeared about grand higher later in the week. Did he need to tell me, absolutely not and tbh I was happy my guitar sold. 

I think this is a key consideration. Like them or loathe them these dealers keep the market fluid by buying up volumes of guitars that may not shift otherwise. And we should all be capable of making a decision on selling a guitar at a price we are happy with and that be the end of the matter. Seen a few of my old items ups for sale at a higher price but never bothered me in the slightest, sometimes amuses me really.

What I don’t like is dishonest descriptions like the Tele I sold where the buyer listed with a £2k mark up but fabricated the history claiming one previous owner, serviced by London luthier blah blah none of which was true. To me this is worse than someone embellishing to get a bargain and if you stick to only selling at a price you are happy with then it negates the buyers motives.

March

bgmartinsbridge said:

Honestly don't think this thread is aimed at fretboarders in general.

Its the 1%ers, er Boris!

Isnt it more about the unscrupulous Gumtree and Facebook traders, who are busy 'buying facebook groups' to get first dibs or taking over gumtree whilst not paying vat because they don't make enough (honest) and pay self assessment tax through their business instead. 

Certainly don't have an issue with small dealers buying stock, as that's how the world goes round. Should they be transparent? - that's a tough one.. 

I once sold a guitar on ebay to guitarguitar.
Only realised I was dealing with a Director when I recognised his shop address.
Appeared about grand higher later in the week. Did he need to tell me, absolutely not and tbh I was happy my guitar sold. 

Although there is a distinction between what happened to you and bedroom dealers - GuitarGuitar will warranty the instrument for 12 months, and pay the VAT on the profit. These two things are at odds with the practices of many bedroom dealers. Not that it should worry you, as you mention, you got what you wanted out of the deal.

GoldenEraGuitars

Barnezy said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Barnezy said:

People are talking as if this is some lucrative business.

But it can be.. 

imagine you buy 3 guitars at £1000 each knowing full well you can get at least £1400 for them each reasonably quickly (let’s say within 30 days). Pop them up for sale in your favourite places on Facebook and spread them around the forums carefully so as not to alert anyone to the fact t that you’re a bedroom dealer. Now, if you get the £1400 per guitar or even £1400 a piece for 2 and £1300 for another one that’s a profit of £1100 in a month. Might not sound “lucrative“ to you but let’s also say it’s the end of the month and it’s payday too from your 9-5. A £20k a year job should get you £1350 or so... add on your guitar takings. Not bad, huh? And for the sake of conversation your missus has just had the family tax credits paid in too, happy days. Back to the £1100 profit.. that’s more than I make in a month with a legitimate business in year 4. My tax money is also contributing to the bedroom dealers tax credits and other bits n bobs I’m sure.

So, maybe my example is melodramatic over OTT but the rate I’ve seen some guys sell their “stock” I don’t think it is. 

Barnezy said:

A few hundred pounds here and there for all the effort and fuss of buying, maybe collecting, advertising, dealing with annoying buyers, boxing, shipping, dealing with PayPal disputes, dealing with damaged or lost items. 

Well, that’s called “business” and if you want to buy and sell from your house and not declare the cash then no one is forcing a gun to your head. Imagine being a retailer who takes trade ins and used gear. They have to do that without seeing all the profit. 

Yeah like I said, its not worth the effort.

My point was... it is worth it. Because a serial bedroom seller could make more in a month (tax free on the side) than I do in a month. For a bedroom dealer it’s basically a tax free boost every time they sell something. 

That is my issue. 

bacchanalian

Ironically, the only time I have ever made money on a sale was when I sold to a stealth trader on here.  He has a facebook shop and sells a lot of gear.  I made £5.  He then cloned my listing from here onto eBay before the guitar had been collected. Other members here contected me to see if my account had been hacked.  I have not noticed many listings recently, though.  

I have given up on selling privately because of stealth traders and also some deals here that were just too much like hard work.  I have had some great deals here but also some really low offers from members I thought better of, but have now added to my list of members I choose not to interact with.  

I am really busting to buy one of Peach's dealer select Alt T but cannot because Peach are not taking trade ins at the moment. 

I am more than happy to sell to a dealer but prefer a straightforward approach and not a barrage of low ball offers highlighting defects to then receive a better offer from a different account to later realise that the buyer is married to the original bidder.

What I don't like about stealth traders is that rely on exploiting someone who is not as well informed as the members here.  That is probably the vast majority of buyers.   

Hopefully, the members who have commented that it is not their job to lookout for non-experts, don't run up against someone with the same attitude in an area where they know little.

I posted a good story about the Bogner Regis guy, which I can update, if I can find the comment to copy.

barnstorm

The specific issue Hattigol originally mentioned has been exacerbated by price hikes on new gear and by the recent slow-down in manufacturing. I think it'll be less of an irritation when/if MI supply and the world in general return to normal.

Re. unscrupulous sorts on the forum: I'm sure any changes the mods make will help, but the ability to look back at a user's posts and mentions (content more than frequency) is the best tool that's ever going to be available in helping us lot to decide if we want to do a deal with a particular person or not.