Ian Elson Guitars - AVOID!!

ditchboy

IanElsonGuitar said:

You are right. Website has reviews and all videos of demos and testing

I’m not one for a witch hunt but that quality of work is inexcusable. Personally I’d be knocking on your door and demanding my money back. Sounds like you haven’t refunded someone as well. 

digitalscream

<Admin hat on>

He's admitted that this was a colossal fuck-up. Yes, it's true that actions speak louder than words, but we have to leave room for someone to be better. Demanding instant evidence of improvement when he's reacting to a situation means that accusations of impropriety are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Brilliant if you're itching for a witch hunt, not so great if you want to see the industry succeed after a pretty shit time, which some folk have dealt with better than others.

Basically, calm it down, please. Nobody wins when there's a hair-trigger on your pitchforks (mixed metaphors FTW).

Mototech

digitalscream said:

<Admin hat on>

He's admitted that this was a colossal fuck-up. Yes, it's true that actions speak louder than words, but we have to leave room for someone to be better. Demanding instant evidence of improvement when he's reacting to a situation means that accusations of impropriety are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Brilliant if you're itching for a witch hunt, not so great if you want to see the industry succeed after a pretty shit time, which some folk have dealt with better than others.

Basically, calm it down, please. Nobody wins when there's a hair-trigger on your pitchforks (mixed metaphors FTW).

With all due respect, Elson has been turning out the same dreadful work for a long time & it really is time people knew about it. He has had ample time to improve his product, but I honestly think he does not have the ability to make a decent guitar &  it appears he just doesn't seem to care.

If he was genuinely sorry for this "mistake" & not actually sorry that he has finally been called out, that would be a different thing.

As I said previously, I have been on the recieving end of his incompetence & lies, but consider myself very lucky to have got out with it costing me very little.

digitalscream

Mototech said:

digitalscream said:

<Admin hat on>

He's admitted that this was a colossal fuck-up. Yes, it's true that actions speak louder than words, but we have to leave room for someone to be better. Demanding instant evidence of improvement when he's reacting to a situation means that accusations of impropriety are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Brilliant if you're itching for a witch hunt, not so great if you want to see the industry succeed after a pretty shit time, which some folk have dealt with better than others.

Basically, calm it down, please. Nobody wins when there's a hair-trigger on your pitchforks (mixed metaphors FTW).

With all due respect, Elson has been turning out the same dreadful work for a long time & it really is time people knew about it. He has had ample time to improve his product, but I honestly think he does not have the ability to make a decent guitar &  it appears he just doesn't seem to care.

If he was genuinely sorry for this "mistake" & not actually sorry that he has finally been called out, that would be a different thing.

As I said previously, I have been on the recieving end of his incompetence & lies, but consider myself very lucky to have got out with it costing me very little.

Yes, and you've had your say - as well as an instruction to calm it down. Unless you have anything new to add, it would probably be a good idea to heed that advice.

ditchboy

digitalscream said:

Mototech said:

digitalscream said:

<Admin hat on>

He's admitted that this was a colossal fuck-up. Yes, it's true that actions speak louder than words, but we have to leave room for someone to be better. Demanding instant evidence of improvement when he's reacting to a situation means that accusations of impropriety are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Brilliant if you're itching for a witch hunt, not so great if you want to see the industry succeed after a pretty shit time, which some folk have dealt with better than others.

Basically, calm it down, please. Nobody wins when there's a hair-trigger on your pitchforks (mixed metaphors FTW).

With all due respect, Elson has been turning out the same dreadful work for a long time & it really is time people knew about it. He has had ample time to improve his product, but I honestly think he does not have the ability to make a decent guitar &  it appears he just doesn't seem to care.

If he was genuinely sorry for this "mistake" & not actually sorry that he has finally been called out, that would be a different thing.

As I said previously, I have been on the recieving end of his incompetence & lies, but consider myself very lucky to have got out with it costing me very little.

Yes, and you've had your say - as well as an instruction to calm it down. Unless you have anything new to add, it would probably be a good idea to heed that advice.

Fair enough but he’s been called out about owing a forum member money at least twice in this thread and has not yet addressed this (either he admits he owes money or he doesn’t). I’ll be fair and give him a chance to respond but so far he’s conveniently ignored this. 

digitalscream

ditchboy said:

Fair enough but he’s been called out about owing a forum member money at least twice in this thread and has not yet addressed this (either he admits he owes money or he doesn’t). I’ll be fair and give him a chance to respond but so far he’s conveniently ignored this. 

Indeed, and I'll be keeping an eye on the situation for that very reason (without knowing any of the details, of course).

IanElsonGuitar

I already said all money is paid back in full. No avoidance...I admitted I messed up but no money is owed to anyone. I did already address this

Mototech

IanElsonGuitar said:

I already said all money is paid back in full. No avoidance...I admitted I messed up but no money is owed to anyone. I did already address this

I'm not trying to be funny, or hijack this thread here @IanElsonGuitar but on 3 occasions you sent me PayPal payments for the final £25 you still owe me, none of which completed, so "all money" is NOT payed back in full. Your tactic never changes, wait until you are backed into a corner, then come on with a sob story & hope you get away with it.

poopot

Not defending the bloke in the slightest...

But for those that have bought a “guitar” from him, what exactly did you expect you would get for that price?

tbh he’s ironing out these things at a quarter of the price a decent builder would charge for even a basic flat top build!!!! 

How can you expect a decent quality instrument for the price of a refinish?

alarm bells should have rung when the price was quoted!!!!

viclennard

In January 2020, I was one of six people who agreed to pay around £700 for a custom-made guitar to be delivered within two months.

Finally delivered in June 2020 with a host of problems including:
• The jack socket was so badly damaged that a jack couldn't be plugged into it.
• The neck had been bolted on at an angle (apparently a common problem with Elson guitars). The bottom E was 2mm from the edge of the fingerboard at the nut and 7mm from the edge at the 22nd fret.
• No trem bar and a rear trem cover that was bulging and preventing the trem from being usable.
• Sharp, unfinished fret ends.
• The nut was cut almost to the edge of the bottom e string.
• Pickups not set square into the guitar body.

I have photos of all the above.

Elson accepted the problems and agreed to a refund - and that's where the problems began. So far I have had a County Court Judgment granted against him which has been transferred to the High Court and currently has an enforcement service attempting to collect the money. The debt started at £711; it is currently at over £1800 of which £500 has been paid.

Of the other five buyers, one refused to accept the guitar and received a refund. A second person has stripped it down and kept the hardware. I've been emailed by someone who won a raffle that Elson organised and the guitar is worse than mine.

I've been blocked from his Facebook group so I can't warn prospective buyers.

@IanElsonGuitar - feel free to respond. 

@poopot. What did I expect? A guitar that was at least playable. After all, the pickups were Bare Knuckle, the trem unit was Hipshot and the wood was solid mahogany. All the problems were down to appalling luthiery.

poopot

viclennard said:

In January 2020, I was one of six people who agreed to pay around £700 for a custom-made guitar to be delivered within two months.

Again not defending the bloke in the slightest...

but wtf did you expect?

£700????? ffs that’s less than the price of parts for even a basic partscaster! And you expect a quality custom build?.

whilst there are folk out there wanting stuff for cheap there will be cowboys willing to take your money. Pay peanuts etc etc etc.

I’m sorry you guys have had to deal with this particular cowboy and the issues that has thrown up... that said... you only have yourselves to blame really!.

GoldenEraGuitars

@poopot the buyer doesn’t dictate or set the price, the seller/builder/creator does. Regardless of the item. If the seller has sold something at a price he or she has set then the  buyer should at least receive a viable or working item. 

guitarjack66

£700 is still a fair amount of money for a guitar. I am assuming we are talking electric here too? I'd say that's more than enough for a decent guitar.

TeleMaster

poopot said:

viclennard said:

In January 2020, I was one of six people who agreed to pay around £700 for a custom-made guitar to be delivered within two months.

you only have yourselves to blame really!.

It’s not their fault in the slightest. Stop blaming the victims. 

viclennard

According to Elson: "I already said all money is paid back in full. No avoidance...I admitted I messed up but no money is owed to anyone. I did already address this."

How about the £1,313.24 still owing to me and the debt collection company I had to employ?

poopot

Look I’m not defending the bloke in the slightest... what he’s done here is abhorrent.

however, people need to manage their expectations a little bit I think... and do their research.

this guy is charging well below an acceptable rate for a custom built guitar. 

Why?
why is his product that cheap? 

He’s a one man band working from a shed, not a massive company cnc’d up churning out standardised guitars on a mass scale.

yes £700 should get you a decent guitar... but £700 won’t get you a decent custom built instrument... as is shown in this thread.

Hands up, it is wrong to blame the “victims”... it’s early and I’ve not had coffee yet... but I stand by the fact they should have done a bit more research into pricing a decent build!...

£700 and a two month build time should have set alarm bells ringing... 

that all said... @IanElsonGuitar should do the right thing and pay back the money that is clearly still owed... and prolly rethink if he should be making guitars.

poopot

viclennard said:

@poopot. What did I expect? A guitar that was at least playable. After all, the pickups were Bare Knuckle, the trem unit was Hipshot and the wood was solid mahogany. All the problems were down to appalling luthiery.

Ok fair enough.
bare knuckle set - £275 ish
hipshot trem - £130 ish
decent wood for body and neck -£100ish

theres circa £500 right there... 
add in decent pots, tuners, fret wire, paint etc etc 

The guy has no business being in business to be honest... 

it seems that folk are just funding his hobby!...

viclennard

poopot said:

Look I’m not defending the bloke in the slightest... what he’s done here is abhorrent.

however, people need to manage their expectations a little bit I think... and do their research.

this guy is charging well below an acceptable rate for a custom built guitar. 

Why?
why is his product that cheap? 

He’s a one man band working from a shed, not a massive company cnc’d up churning out standardised guitars on a mass scale.

yes £700 should get you a decent guitar... but £700 won’t get you a decent custom built instrument... as is shown in this thread.

Hands up, it is wrong to blame the “victims”... it’s early and I’ve not had coffee yet... but I stand by the fact they should have done a bit more research into pricing a decent build!...

£700 and a two month build time should have set alarm bells ringing... 

that all said... @IanElsonGuitar should do the right thing and pay back the money that is clearly still owed... and prolly rethink if he should be making guitars.

By making six guitars in tandem, he stated that there was a financial saving on wood and parts. All guitars were made to the same design and same body/neck wood with variation on the fingerboard wood and pickups. A trem was an optional extra. As he didn't have a lot of work on at the time, it was a way to increase income.

I didn't complain about the basic design. My complaints were all the things that made the guitar unplayable: sharp fret ends, twisted neck, incorrectly cut nut, incorrectly fitted trem unit, damaged jack socket, etc. 

As for not owing anyone money, absolute falsehood.

Mototech

poopot said:

viclennard said:

In January 2020, I was one of six people who agreed to pay around £700 for a custom-made guitar to be delivered within two months.

Again not defending the bloke in the slightest...

but wtf did you expect?

£700????? ffs that’s less than the price of parts for even a basic partscaster! And you expect a quality custom build?.

whilst there are folk out there wanting stuff for cheap there will be cowboys willing to take your money. Pay peanuts etc etc etc.

I’m sorry you guys have had to deal with this particular cowboy and the issues that has thrown up... that said... you only have yourselves to blame really!.

The guy is a con artist. He was extremely pleasant & personable before everything went tits up & his sob story at the time sounded completely plausible. He talked a great guitar, saying by batch building them he could keep his costs to a minimum & I took pity on him a bit I suppose, hence why I paid in full long before the  boat anchor was delivered. It was the constant lies about delays that were out of his control that really annoyed me, like the switches he was waiting on from Germany for more than 2 months, the guitar I saw had extremely poor electrics, so  the switch lie was just another delaying tactic.

crunchman

guitarjack66 said:

£700 is still a fair amount of money for a guitar. I am assuming we are talking electric here too? I'd say that's more than enough for a decent guitar.

As @poopot has said, it's not enough for a handbuilt custom guitar.

If you are putting expensive pickups like Bare Knuckles in it, then the hardware will probably cost around £300 by the time you account for tuners, bridge, jack socket, switches, pots, strap buttons.

Decent wood is not cheap.  If I go on David Dyke's website, his cheapest body blanks start from £40.  Proper mahogany starts from £63.  A high grade 1 piece mahogany blank is listed at £126.  Even with the cheaper blanks, you are looking at around £100 by the time you add a neck blank and a fretboard.  You might be able to get it for £50 on Ebay, but that's a gamble as you don't know how well that has been seasoned.

Add in consumables that you will use in the course of building a guitar - fretwire, glue, sandpaper, masking tape, whatever you use to finish it, that's more money.

Add in wear and tear on tools, that's even more money.  Decent drill bits and router bits are not cheap and will need replacing every so often.

Add in power costs for running the tools and heating and lighting the workshop.

There is a minimum of £450 in costs for that guitar, and possibly more than that depending on what he's paying for the wood blanks.

I went to Crimson a couple of years ago and built a guitar.  I did't quite get finished while I was there, and ended up doing the wiring and a couple of other little bits at home.  I put over 60 hours into that guitar - and it was a pretty simple T style design.  Someone who knows what they are doing would take a lot less time than I did, but there is no way you are going to be making good guitars for £700 and making a living at it.  You are probably going to be making less than the minimum wage unless you cut lots of corners.

When I was at Crimson, there was a guy on the course who was probably around 60, and from a conversation he had, he was planning to build some guitars as a hobby when he retired.  I think he was planning to sell them to fund building the next one.  In that kind of scenario, you might be able to build them and sell them for around £700 and get a little bit of pocket money, but there is no way to make a proper living at it at that price.