Football - Euro 2020 Championship

jellyroll

Not sure why Southgate’s tactics are coming under so much fire. We didn’t actually lose the match. We lost the penalty lottery. 

We were only ever going to win through slight margins…. a ball slipped through the Italy defensive line to a runner, a set piece or a well placed cross. On the night those things just didn’t go our way. 

Could have been 2:1 and we’d all be calling it a tactical master class. 

jonnyburgo

Bozzer ain't gonna condemn the racists, that's like shitting on his own doorstep eh? 

CHRISB50

jellyroll said:

Not sure why Southgate’s tactics are coming under so much fire. We didn’t actually lose the match. We lost the penalty lottery. 

We were only ever going to win through slight margins…. a ball slipped through the Italy defensive line to a runner, a set piece or a well placed cross. On the night those things just didn’t go our way. 

Could have been 2:1 and we’d all be calling it a tactical master class. 

It’s football. People always know better. 

munckee

jonnyburgo said:

Bozzer ain't gonna condemn the racists, that's like shitting on his own doorstep eh? 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/12/fa-condemns-racist-abuse-england-players-social-media-euro-2020-final

Absolute guff.

crunchman

I was going to say something about the racism issue, but we need to keep the politics out of this thread.

DrCornelius

It would be fascinating if a manager had to explain his approach to a game afterwards to the fans via the media (this isn’t a serious suggestion but it would be interesting)


Southgate knows more about football than all of us combined . For example , I would have made changes on the hour as we were really losing momentum and confidence on the ball . We were basically giving Italy the ball and saying ‘break  us down’

Southgate would have seen this but there would have been a reason why he didn’t change anything . Probably a very clever and legitimate reason and knowing that stuff would  give a regular fan like me a whole different understanding and appreciation of the game.

FarleyUK

DrCornelius said:

It would be fascinating if a manager had to explain his approach to a game afterwards to the fans via the media (this isn’t a serious suggestion but it would be interesting)


Southgate knows more about football than all of us combined . For example , I would have made changes on the hour as we were really losing momentum and confidence on the ball . We were basically giving Italy the ball and saying ‘break  us down’

Southgate would have seen this but there would have been a reason why he didn’t change anything . Probably a very clever and legitimate reason and knowing that stuff would  give a regular fan like me a whole different understanding and appreciation of the game.

However, there would always be people shouting that they know better, as if their armchair gives them some superpower and better nuanced tactics compared to the 'experts'. Just like in anything to do with life.

Just look at the Politics and Covid forums on here for example.

crunchman

FarleyUK said:

DrCornelius said:

It would be fascinating if a manager had to explain his approach to a game afterwards to the fans via the media (this isn’t a serious suggestion but it would be interesting)


Southgate knows more about football than all of us combined . For example , I would have made changes on the hour as we were really losing momentum and confidence on the ball . We were basically giving Italy the ball and saying ‘break  us down’

Southgate would have seen this but there would have been a reason why he didn’t change anything . Probably a very clever and legitimate reason and knowing that stuff would  give a regular fan like me a whole different understanding and appreciation of the game.

However, there would always be people shouting that they know better, as if their armchair gives them some superpower and better nuanced tactics compared to the 'experts'. Just like in anything to do with life.

Just look at the Politics and Covid forums on here for example.

There are hundreds of thousands of people, possibly millions, who could do a better job than our politicians.  It's just that our system requires people who work the slimy political party machinery to reach the top.  The people who would be good at leading don't want to do that, so we end up with those who are hungry for power, instead of those who would be good leaders.

TTony

DrCornelius said:

Southgate knows more about football than all of us combined . 

fob

crunchman said:

There are hundreds of thousands of people, possibly millions, who could do a better job than our politicians.  It's just that our system requires people who work the slimy political party machinery to reach the top.  The people who would be good at leading don't want to do that, so we end up with those who are hungry for power, instead of those who would be good leaders.

I wonder if there will be a point in the not too distant future where AI takes over general governance. I think Rousseau had the exact same complaints in the 1700s as we do today and hoped the emerging industrialisation would produce a 'government machine' to take the corruption out of politics - Just machines to make big decisions, programmed by men with compassion and vision.

Keeping on topic, I think AI analysis will soon become a bigger part of football preparation and tactics - moneyballing the game at a whole new level.

Bridgehouse

Just to reiterate my warning - keep off the politics - there’s a bit of a sniff of it coming back in… please keep it on topic to the footy only please

YellowLedBetterMan

jonnyburgo said:

Bozzer ain't gonna condemn the racists, that's like shitting on his own doorstep eh? 

Except he has...

Anyway, can you all please trot off back to P&E? Leave the football thread to people who want to talk football?

Philly_Q

Bridgehouse said:

Just to reiterate my warning - keep off the politics - there’s a bit of a sniff of it coming back in… please keep it on topic to the footy only please

Oh shit.  You said "footy"...

Hattigol

I think Southgate managed that last game very poorly.

He had a goalkeeper with 7 defensive players in front of him. And to think we stereotype the Italians as being defensive and boring.

The fact he hadn't changed it by the time the Italians scored suggests he thought they could hold on for 90 mins. I was in a room with about 15 people - not one of us thought that would happen.

Letting the Italians play by us sitting back so deep meant that they established themselves as the attacking force in the game and it became sufficiently entrenched that when he made his subs, they couldn't really make an impact on the dynamics.

I don't mind losing - we've had enough practice at it. But I am really angry at the fact that we didn't have a good enough go at them. We didn't attack them. No shots in target in the last 118 minutes....in a home fixture. We had players that could have tested Chiellini and Bonucci but didn't bring them on. 

And bringing players on to take penalties as opposed to players who have been kicking a ball all night is really really poor decision-making - as was putting Saka 5th. These are all Southgate's decisions.

I'm proud we got to the final. But really annoyed with how poorly the final was managed.

I don't think for a second he should be sacked but I'd much prefer it if he reconsidered his 'no risk' strategy in games - at times, he made Mourinho's style of football seem adventurous.

You may disagree. It's football, after all.

Philly_Q

Hattigol said:

I don't think for a second he should be sacked but I'd much prefer it if he reconsidered his 'no risk' strategy in games - at times, he made Mourinho's style of football seem adventurous.

Maybe not yet - they probably need a rest - but I'd be very surprised if he and his coaching team don't micro-analyse every decision during this tournament and consider how they can be just a little more attacking and adventurous, whilst minimising the risks.

Which sounds like stating the bleeding obvious even as I write it, but I'm not at all sure that's how things have been done in the past.  It was more of case of he's failed, sack him, bring in someone else and go on about "passion" a lot.

Hattigol

Philly_Q said:

Hattigol said:

I don't think for a second he should be sacked but I'd much prefer it if he reconsidered his 'no risk' strategy in games - at times, he made Mourinho's style of football seem adventurous.

Maybe not yet - they probably need a rest - but I'd be very surprised if he and his coaching team don't micro-analyse every decision during this tournament and consider how they can be just a little more attacking and adventurous, whilst minimising the risks.

Which sounds like stating the bleeding obvious even as I write it, but I'm not at all sure that's how things have been done in the past.  It was more of case of he's failed, sack him, bring in someone else and go on about "passion" a lot.

I remember Sven certainly had a thing for passion. If you believe Ulrika, that is.

TeleMaster

Philly_Q said:

Bridgehouse said:

Just to reiterate my warning - keep off the politics - there’s a bit of a sniff of it coming back in… please keep it on topic to the footy only please

Oh shit.  You said "footy"...

See. People do say it.  

guitars4you

As a big overview I think GH has given us something to build on, plus some hope and to something to be proud off - We all know not everything is hunky dory and with the players he has available, he will learn and adapt (hope so) - Sadly only 1 team can win and even Messi has only just won his 1st ever tournament for Argentina

But in recent years we've had some low points - Since 1990 then Graham Taylor, Sven, McClaren, Capello, Roy Hodgson have all taken us down the road of 'piss poor effort' And IMO have been ultra poor choices as manager

crunchman

guitars4you said:

But in recent years we've had some low points - Since 1990 then Graham Taylor, Sven, McClaren, Capello, Roy Hodgson have all taken us down the road of 'piss poor effort' And IMO have been ultra poor choices as manager

Southgate is undoubtedly better than any of them.

You missed Hoddle off the list.  He was useless.  His man management skills were appalling.  He also went to the World Cup in 1998 with Graeme Le Saux as the only left footed player in the entire squad - and he promptly got injured.

Philly_Q

crunchman said:

You missed Hoddle off the list.  He was useless.  His man management skills were appalling.  He also went to the World Cup in 1998 with Graeme Le Saux as the only left footed player in the entire squad - and he promptly got injured.

I'm surprised Eileen Drewery wasn't able to get Graeme sorted out.  Maybe he didn't believe strongly enough.