Boxing thread

munckee

Anyone see the Cameron Taylor fight last night? I’ve watched the highlights today and looked a great fight. A few people I know who watched it said that it was too close too call either way and should have been a draw.  

Iamnobody

I watched it. I thought comms were incredibly biased. It was an ugly fight with a lot of spoiling and holding - when the rounds are only 2 mins I want to see clean work. 

Because it was an untidy fight it was difficult to score. I wouldn’t argue with a draw or either girl nicking it by a round or two. I think one judge gave it to Taylor by 8 rounds - which is a bit comical. 

The debatable knock down and the clash of heads all played a part in the outcome. Comms were hyping it up as something really special - I just didn’t see it. 

TeleMaster

Placidcasual79 said:

Difficult to argue with these 4 at the moment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rCFDaFb9Y

Doesn't Usyk have to beat Fury to cement that? Isn't this premature?

I know that Fury has been taking shit fights at times and hasn't fought everyone, but if he fights Usyk and wins, he will have fought two of the best heavyweights of the era, the same as Usyk, and will have unified the titles. Fury is also the favourite. So this addition is surely dependant on their upcoming fight?

How can Usyk be on this list over Fury if Fury beats him? It should be Fury over him. 

Iamnobody

I think you can make a strong argument for Usyk to be on the list; undisputed at cruiserweight and holds 3 straps at heavyweight. He doesn’t carry any reputational baggage like Fury either. 

Beating Fury would further cement it - but right now I’d put him there. 

If you’re drawing the list up now it can’t be based on what ifs of a fight that hasn’t happened. 

TeleMaster

Iamnobody said:

I think you can make a strong argument for Usyk to be on the list; undisputed at cruiserweight and holds 3 straps at heavyweight. He doesn’t carry any reputational baggage like Fury either. 

Beating Fury would further cement it - but right now I’d put him there. 

If you’re drawing the list up now it can’t be based on what ifs of a fight that hasn’t happened. 

I agree there's a strong argument but Fury v Usyk is a generational fight that's two months away, that has been in the making for months. I'd say don't make the list until that fight has happened, or wait until this generation are on their way out before making it. It's just meaningless content, it doesn't hold any weight and this channel will change their mind if Fury wins. 

If Fury wins then Fury should take his place as he'll be the undisputed, undefeated heavyweight champ of the world and the first since Lewis decades ago. If not, Usyk definitely. 

The low blow was it/wasn't it is some reputational baggage. I feel it probably was but there are many people who feel Dubois was robbed. 

duotone

https://youtu.be/hdtH8RT352o?feature=shared

munckee

TeleMaster said:

Iamnobody said:

I think you can make a strong argument for Usyk to be on the list; undisputed at cruiserweight and holds 3 straps at heavyweight. He doesn’t carry any reputational baggage like Fury either. 

Beating Fury would further cement it - but right now I’d put him there. 

If you’re drawing the list up now it can’t be based on what ifs of a fight that hasn’t happened. 

I agree there's a strong argument but Fury v Usyk is a generational fight that's two months away, that has been in the making for months. I'd say don't make the list until that fight has happened, or wait until this generation are on their way out before making it. It's just meaningless content, it doesn't hold any weight and this channel will change their mind if Fury wins. 

If Fury wins then Fury should take his place as he'll be the undisputed, undefeated heavyweight champ of the world and the first since Lewis decades ago. If not, Usyk definitely. 

The low blow was it/wasn't it is some reputational baggage. I feel it probably was but there are many people who feel Dubois was robbed. 

I think at this stage I would say Fury has slightly the better resume of the two getting wins against Klitschko and Wilder and the ease with which he dealt with Whyte who is world level operator.  Usyk coming up and outboxing Joshua is very impressive for his physical size and his domination of the Cruisers and general skill level.

I think of all of them Crawford is P4P best, the number of world title fights he has won and nearly all by KO/TKO, very good resume and not really looked like losing a fight.  Looking at the others Fury could easily have been stopped by Wilder first fight or lost on points to Klitschko,  Usyk would have been KOd by Dubois if the ref decided it was a legitimate body shot and it was borderline.

Canelo lost the first two to GGG for me,  was not fairing so well against Kovalev before scoring a KO and didn't come close to beating either Mayweather or Bivol.  Although he has beaten a lot of very good fighters you have to factor into account the fights he lost or would have lost with better judges.

richman6100

I'd add Beterbiev...if there was another spot on the Mount Rushmore of current boxing greats. Lomachenko too, although he's probably on the decline now (he still beat Haney in my view).

Hootsmon

Oh my! Never seen a more wicked intent from a punch. Clip is only 40 odd seconds and punch is at end and what a whack it makes....you're a baaad man George

Hootsmon

Placidcasual79

richman6100 said:

I'd add Beterbiev...if there was another spot on the Mount Rushmore of current boxing greats. Lomachenko too, although he's probably on the decline now (he still beat Haney in my view).

Those are the two I thought of as well @richman6100 - Lomachenko might be my favourite fighter of all time. He does things I've never seen other fighters do.

I guess the makers of the video think Lomachenko is on the slide.  I am not sure I agree. I am a fan so completely biased - but like you I think he beat Haney.

Did you see Haney at the weekend though? He looked good at that weight I thought. Seemed to have a bit more power. I rate Prograis - that was a good win in commanding style. 

Also - I want to shout out Miguel Cotto. Another of my favourite fighters. He never makes the cut for lists like these - and probably rightly so. Though he won titles in 4 weight classes and would, in my mind, have been in the pound for pound top ten between 2005 -  2015 or certainly 2010 - 2015, he was never considered truly the best. But I think he was a great - he gave everything in every fight he was in and was always pretty classy. He had excellent technique and sufficient speed to box on the outside - but he loved a fight and always bought the pressure. Cotto was wiley but honest. I always watched his fights - he wasn't in many bad ones. He fought everybody. I know he wasn't a Mayweather, Alvarez or Golovkin - he came up short when it came to that final, final step to the very very top - but what a fighter. He'd be on a pro's pro Mount Rushmore no doubt. 

munckee

richman6100 said:

I'd add Beterbiev...if there was another spot on the Mount Rushmore of current boxing greats. Lomachenko too, although he's probably on the decline now (he still beat Haney in my view).

My only reservation with beterbiev is he hasn’t beaten an elite level fighter yet. Yarde was winning until being stopped, there is the possibility he loses to the first fighter who takes him the distance. 

I’m also a massive Loma fan and think he beat Haney, which looks better after how well Haney managed Regis Prograis. 

richman6100

@Placidcasual79 Loma is one of my favourite fighters ever. He's probably the most complete boxer I've ever seem. No boxers are perfect, but he's probably the closest I've ever seen. His defence and evasive skills are equal to those of the greats like Pernell Whitaker, while his attacking skills are certainly better than Sweet P's ever were. His ability to read an opponent and adjust are second to none. He was, in my opinion, the best amateur boxer in history and I include the Cuban greats in that statement.

Two of his three professional 'losses' were highly questionable. The Salido fight was laughable and the referee should have been banned from the sport for supposedly missing dozens of low blows. Let's not even get into the fact that Salido failed to make weight and was huge compared to Loma. I've watched the Loma-Haney bout six times and I score it either 7-5 or 8-4 to Loma. The Lopez fight is different. I scored it a draw, despite Loma doing very little in the first half of the fight. When he finally stepped up, he had Lopez all over the place, apart from in the final round. I can understand others saying that Lopez won the fight though. Given that Loma fought much of his career one or two divisions above his natural weight, his achievements are exceptional.

With regards to Haney vs Prograis, it went how I expected it to. I like Prograis and he's a very good fighter, but he's no Loma. The things that Loma did to negate Haney's punch/dip/clinch approach were always going to be beyond Prograis. That said, Prograis has decent power and he always had a chance if he could have rocked Haney early in a round and capitalised on that. Linares almost managed to do so, but he stunned Haney too late in the round (10th, I think). Sadly, Prograis got frustrated and Haney stayed far more composed. I don't like Haney for several reasons, but he performed well and looked good in the higher weight class.

@munckee Beterbiev can only fight who's put in front of him. He's not ducked anyone. I thought Yarde did really well - it was a performance that he should be very proud of. Yarde is an excellent fighter in my view. That said, he has a history of doing well in the first half of a fight, whereas Beterbiev stays strong and active for 12 rounds despite his age. Those who have fought him say that Beterbiev's power is extraordinary. His technical abilities are underrated in my opinion too, even if his style if functional rather than flashy. He's a humble guy and he's very modest about his own skills, but he once beat Usyk in the amateurs. He's no slouch and, as I'm sure you know, he's stopped all of his opponents since turning professional. If he can beat Bivol (a more technically skilled fighter in my opinion), his legacy will be cemented.

Placidcasual79

richman6100 said:

@Placidcasual79 Loma is one of my favourite fighters ever. He's probably the most complete boxer I've ever seem. No boxers are perfect, but he's probably the closest I've ever seen. His defence and evasive skills are equal to those of the greats like Pernell Whitaker, while his attacking skills are certainly better than Sweet P's ever were. His ability to read an opponent and adjust are second to none. He was, in my opinion, the best amateur boxer in history and I include the Cuban greats in that statement.

Two of his three professional 'losses' were highly questionable. The Salido fight was laughable and the referee should have been banned from the sport for supposedly missing dozens of low blows. Let's not even get into the fact that Salido failed to make weight and was huge compared to Loma. I've watched the Loma-Haney bout six times and I score it either 7-5 or 8-4 to Loma. The Lopez fight is different. I scored it a draw, despite Loma doing very little in the first half of the fight. When he finally stepped up, he had Lopez all over the place, apart from in the final round. I can understand others saying that Lopez won the fight though. Given that Loma fought much of his career one or two divisions above his natural weight, his achievements are exceptional.

With regards to Haney vs Prograis, it went how I expected it to. I like Prograis and he's a very good fighter, but he's no Loma. The things that Loma did to negate Haney's punch/dip/clinch approach were always going to be beyond Prograis. That said, Prograis has decent power and he always had a chance if he could have rocked Haney early in a round and capitalised on that. Linares almost managed to do so, but he stunned Haney too late in the round (10th, I think). Sadly, Prograis got frustrated and Haney stayed far more composed. I don't like Haney for several reasons, but he performed well and looked good in the higher weight class.

-------------

I couldn't agree with your assessment more @richman6100 - you also make an excellent point about his weight. Lomachenko ALWAYS fought heavier opponents....... it almost didn't look right when he fought Commey for example. That he managed to hurt and stop some one much bigger is a tribute to his accuracy, timing, work rate and consistency. 

Setting aside the fact that he perhaps lacked one punch finishing power - I think he is possibly the most complete fighter - offensively and defensively - certainly in the 25 years I've watched boxing. If you wanted to show somebody all that the sport can be you'd play his highlights. He has almost supernatural technique, composer and reflexes. Incredible. 

richman6100

Placidcasual79 said:

I couldn't agree with your assessment more @richman6100 - you also make an excellent point about his weight. Lomachenko ALWAYS fought heavier opponents....... it almost didn't look right when he fought Commey for example. That he managed to hurt and stop some one much bigger is a tribute to his accuracy, timing, work rate and consistency. 

Setting aside the fact that he perhaps lacked one punch finishing power - I think he is possibly the most complete fighter - offensively and defensively - certainly in the 25 years I've watched boxing. If you wanted to show somebody all that the sport can be you'd play his highlights. He has almost supernatural technique, composer and reflexes. Incredible. 

@Placidcasual79 ;Absolutely. I've been watching boxing for over 40 years and Loma is one of the most exciting fighters to emerge in those decades. Hugely talented, relentless in his pursuit of perfection and trained by a genius, his father. Anatoly deserves huge credit. From insisting that Vasily learned traditional Ukrainian dance to develop his footwork, to the unusual physical and mental training that he encouraged his son to undertake, he's a true master. Let's not forget that he also trained Usyk as an amateur and before his fights against Joshua.

Placidcasual79

richman6100 said:

Placidcasual79 said:

I couldn't agree with your assessment more @richman6100 - you also make an excellent point about his weight. Lomachenko ALWAYS fought heavier opponents....... it almost didn't look right when he fought Commey for example. That he managed to hurt and stop some one much bigger is a tribute to his accuracy, timing, work rate and consistency. 

Setting aside the fact that he perhaps lacked one punch finishing power - I think he is possibly the most complete fighter - offensively and defensively - certainly in the 25 years I've watched boxing. If you wanted to show somebody all that the sport can be you'd play his highlights. He has almost supernatural technique, composer and reflexes. Incredible. 

@Placidcasual79 ;Absolutely. I've been watching boxing for over 40 years and Loma is one of the most exciting fighters to emerge in those decades. Hugely talented, relentless in his pursuit of perfection and trained by a genius, his father. Anatoly deserves huge credit. From insisting that Vasily learned traditional Ukrainian dance to develop his footwork, to the unusual physical and mental training that he encouraged his son to undertake, he's a true master. Let's not forget that he also trained Usyk as an amateur and before his fights against Joshua.

Ah wow thats incredible - I only started watching boxing and going to fights in the late 90's when Ricky Hatton was on the come up. It's good to hear that you think Lomachenko is a unique and highly talented fighter. How do you keep up with boxing if you don't mind me asking @richman6100? Do you read boxing news? Are there podcasts or YT channels you watch? Boxing is unique in that there is a lot of biased coverage of fighters supported by big promotions..... I always ask a boxing fan when I meet one where they get there stuff from?

richman6100

@Placidcasual79 I'll pm you mate. Don't want to derail this thread and make it about me.

Iamnobody

Share the info @richman6100 that's what this thread is for.

I’m currently enjoying the Fight Disciples podcast (they cover MMA as well) the George Groves boxing club podcast. Boxing News can be ok, I get the mag through Apple+ and sometime listen to their pods.

Did anyone watch the Chris Billam Smith fight on Sunday? He made that hard work for himself (or his opponent made it hard) either way he must have been so glad to see the rib go on Masternak.

munckee

Iamnobody said:

Share the info @richman6100 that's what this thread is for.

I’m currently enjoying the Fight Disciples podcast (they cover MMA as well) the George Groves boxing club podcast. Boxing News can be ok, I get the mag through Apple+ and sometime listen to their pods.

Did anyone watch the Chris Billam Smith fight on Sunday? He made that hard work for himself (or his opponent made it hard) either way he must have been so glad to see the rib go on Masternak.

Yeah I watched it, CBS is local to me so I'm always interested in his fights.  He was losing but I felt he had started to turn it in the round he inflicted the damage.  Would like to see a Riakporhe rematch as that was a close fight until the stoppage, although CBS would have to be better than Sunday.

Agreed @richman6100 share on here if you are happy to do so.

richman6100

OK, I'll start by suggesting the Chris Andre Boxing YouTube channel for some of the best breakdowns of fights. Fouts Boxing Theory is another one for getting into real detail about technical theory, although he does try to sell his boxing lessons during his videos. I watch boxing through various channels, including Sky, although I'm fortunate enough to have a mate who lives nearby who subscribes to that. I rarely read boxing magazines these days. Some articles are ok, but some are too biased and I prefer the discussions that happen on the *better* YouTube channels (like Chris Andre's), which give a range of views and opinions.

@Iamnobody I thought Chris Billam-Smith looked way too easy to hit in Sunday's fight. He's a lovely bloke and has worked really hard to get to where he is, but I think he's one of the weaker champions at Cruiserweight. I wouldn't fancy his chances against Jai Opetaia (think that's how you spell it), assuming Opetaia isn't stripped of his IBF belt and the two can meet in the near future. For me, Opetaia is probably the best of the current cruiserweights.

@Munkee I too would love to see a rematch with Riakporhe. The fact that their previous bout ended in a split decision makes it an excellent all-British affair and something of a grudge match. Riakporhe is unbeaten and has a win over Glowacki on his resume, although the Polish fighter is in decline now I think. CBS will have to do a lot better than he did on Sunday to avoid losing his title if he fought the Londoner in my opinion.