The Football Thread.

Creed_Clicks

Shrews said:

It will be a comfortable win against the Swiss and our best performance of the tournament, starting to peak at exactly the right time.

  

Jalapeno

Klopp for England Manager !!!!!!!

RaymondLin

Southgate will put out exactly the same team, except this time we will just lose...with no comeback.

I hate this idea of playing the best players but not in their best positions, the left side of the team is TURD, the Luke Shaw gamble has failed and plan B doesn't work.  We don't stretch teams, we don't drive down the line.  We have Saka who  does well but because the midfield are so far apart he gets no support on the right side to play any one-twos into he box and there was hardly any cut backs into the 6 yard.

On the left....just TURD, Foden's natural instinct is to cut inside, despite being left footed on the left side, every single time from 40 yards or so from goal he goes inside.  Trippier too being right footed he too gets to the half way line and do either a side way pass or backwards, with the 1 exception of the offside goal.

2 plays on the left side whose 1st thought is to go inside into traffic or backwards.....that just purposely reduces our options on the pitch.  How is that a good thing?

Watching Spain after was a breath of fresh air.  Even though Williams and Yamel are both inverted wingers, they STAY on the line and stretches the opposition and they actually run down the line.

We go sideways and backwards.

munckee

Much of the criticism of Southgate is fair but its an unwinnable position really, if we were playing Chilwell and Gordon on the left everyone would be saying "the left is sh1t I'd rather have Tripper and Foden." Leave out a foden or kane and he'd be torn apart from that if we didn't play well.

We are playing the Swiss next who are a really good team and bang on form and must be favourites to win and if we lose it everyone will say he should be sacked for losing to a non top tier nation, despite them being as good as Germany and better than Italy.

Jalapeno

munckee said:

We are playing the Swiss next who are a really good team and bang on form and must be favourites to win and if we lose it everyone will say he should be sacked for losing to a non top tier nation, despite them being as good as Germany and better than Italy.

He shouldn't be summarily sacked, but it's time for hime to go. He's done a lot of good, but he's a busted flush now. Needs a change.

RaymondLin

I am just sitting here thinking any other coach would have made changes much sooner, not like before Eze came on for Trippier because he was injured and forced off.  But games sooner, to address this problem.

Even on last night's game, it took Trippier getting injured before he made a change.  We were losing, in the last 16, Zero shots on target after an hour....he was still there thinking "This is working?"

I wonder if he has some crystal ball or something because everyone else would have made tweaks and changes.  Ancelotti would made changes much earlier, not bringing on a 2nd striker on the 93rd minute and still no shots on target....

Either complete genius or just lucky.

CaseOfAce

I wonder what Eddie Howe is making of all this?

Shrews

Everyone's a great armchair manager, everyone can see the problems and how to correct them. We should all apply for the job because we know best! 

The one who has previously got us to a final, who probably wants to win more than anybody in the country, the best manager we've had in terms of results and progress since Alf Ramsey, the one who knows how the players play individually and within a team (and squad) more than anyone in the country, the one who knows the physical and mental state of each player better than anyone in the country. The one who has managed us to four games unbeaten in this particular tournament. 

Well, he should be fired. 

Shrews

CaseOfAce said:

I wonder what Eddie Howe is making of all this?

He's probably thinking "I hope nobody wants me to take that England job. Not sure my heart can cope with an off-the-scale pulse rate." 

RaymondLin

Armchair expert checking in, the 93rd minute substitution to bring on Toney....

The reason teams make last minute subs is to waste time, when they are winning, we were losing...and had no shots on goal.  I would love to hear the reason from him in what he thinks Toney can do in those 2 minutes he was brought on in normal time in order to influence the game.

bloodandtears

Shrews said:

Everyone's a great armchair manager, everyone can see the problems and how to correct them. We should all apply for the job because we know best! 

The one who has previously got us to a final, who probably wants to win more than anybody in the country, the best manager we've had in terms of results and progress since Alf Ramsey, the one who knows how the players play individually and within a team (and squad) more than anyone in the country, the one who knows the physical and mental state of each player better than anyone in the country. The one who has managed us to four games unbeaten in this particular tournament. 

Well, he should be fired. 

taking that view then...  the players are letting him down massively in this tournament because the games have shown little to suggest its a cohesive team with a plan.

Creed_Clicks

munckee said:

We are playing the Swiss next who are a really good team and bang on form and must be favourites to win and if we lose it everyone will say he should be sacked for losing to a non top tier nation, despite them being as good as Germany and better than Italy.

This is it. Just because Switzerland don't have any strong footballing history doesn't mean they should be dismissed as the underdog. They beat Italy, with their all the footballing history, fair and square. A lot of so called "top teams" are just mediocre. International football is odd in that a lot of teams are just mediocre a lot of the time. I don't know if it is the hype machine of the premier league carrying over into international football or La Liga hype carrying over into their national team etc.
Granted it was over 20 years ago, but I remember talking to an Italian about Roy Keane when he was in his prime. Their answer to me was "well if he was any good, he'd be playing in Italy". So maybe all the traditional top international teams have their internal bubble of hype...

guitars4you

guitars4you said:

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

Anyway 
back to serious matters 

what is happening with Gray to Spurs and we get Skipp Rodon and a hefty bunch of cash

Not so sure about that.

Might prefer to keep Skipp (homegrown quota) and promote from within.  Also, Brentford supposedly offered £40m for Gray, can’t see Spurs matching that as well as £60m on Eze plus a decent CF.

OTOH, Gray got a lot of real experience last year, which isn’t matched by our U21s.

Leeds turned down the 40m Brentford deal - supposedly as Spurs wanted to hi-jack it

Skipp was with DF at Norwich

Looks like job done - Not got all the deals yet but appears as though cash + Rodon is the done deal - Not sure if Skipp on loan is still an option

Look after this one not as per Jack Clarke

DrCornelius

Shrews said:

Everyone's a great armchair manager, everyone can see the problems and how to correct them. We should all apply for the job because we know best! 

The one who has previously got us to a final, who probably wants to win more than anybody in the country, the best manager we've had in terms of results and progress since Alf Ramsey, the one who knows how the players play individually and within a team (and squad) more than anyone in the country, the one who knows the physical and mental state of each player better than anyone in the country. The one who has managed us to four games unbeaten in this particular tournament. 

Well, he should be fired. 

I don’t think this is the right time for you to double down on your Southgate support @Shrews !  Maybe wait until we haven’t stunk the place out and you may convince a few people 

TTony

That surprised me a bit @guitars4you !

Agree that he needs more careful handling than Jack Clarke.  We’ve a lot of young players about the place now, need to make sure that they all see a way through from the U21s and into the first team.

After the season at Norwich, Skipp was supposedly destined to be the future of Spurs for years ahead.  But he’s not found his place, and there are plenty now ahead of him.  We need more players “making it”.

And you got Rodon back.

Shrews

bloodandtears said:

Shrews said:

Everyone's a great armchair manager, everyone can see the problems and how to correct them. We should all apply for the job because we know best! 

The one who has previously got us to a final, who probably wants to win more than anybody in the country, the best manager we've had in terms of results and progress since Alf Ramsey, the one who knows how the players play individually and within a team (and squad) more than anyone in the country, the one who knows the physical and mental state of each player better than anyone in the country. The one who has managed us to four games unbeaten in this particular tournament. 

Well, he should be fired. 

taking that view then...  the players are letting him down massively in this tournament because the games have shown little to suggest its a cohesive team with a plan.

Or look at it another way. 

This is tournament management. How often have we seen English teams burn out late in tournaments with the usual inquest results of:

- We need a winter break
- We need less games in a season
- The English youth doesn't get enough playing time to develop

I have no doubt whatsoever that the instruction in those first three games was win the group and don't worry about looking worldbeaters to the press and public.

Boring, boring and frustrating to us at home. But effective nonetheless. 

Slovakia are a very good side. My outside tip for the tournament. No surprise to me that they sank the Belgians in the first game, had they won last night they would have gone all the way to the final.

But we weren't 'lucky' in beating them. We saw the job out, they didn't. Southgate made a tactical decision extremely late in the game (yep, I thought it was too late too). Brought on Toney to cause 5 minutes or so of mischief. It worked. Slovakia succumbed (eventually) and couldn't get back into it, the mental toughness and concentration waned and ours didn't.

That's an extremely important trait for team morale.

How often do we hear pundits say 'Grinding out a poor 1-0 on a cold November night away from home makes you title contenders' or the sign of champions is when you don't play well but still grind out a win'?

Yet here we are 'grinding it out' but the call instead is 'sack the manager!'

What's more is that we know we have incredible talent out there and know that they can and should play better. I would rather know that going into the last 8 than think we have reached the best of our ability. 

RaymondLin

We were totally lucky in beating them.  There is no way you can convince me that it was his plan all along to not have any shots on target for 90mins and to get an equaliser with an overhead kick with a minute to go.

This is similar to Man United last season, they won a bunch of games...and they were lucky, like the opening game against Wolves.  They had no identity in their style of play, everything so slow and their league position reflected that.

Anyway, Southgate clearly has faith in his players to do something, clearly more faith him them than me......

I was actually a little disappointed when Bellingham scored, he bailed him out, a split second brilliance does not justify all that crap that came before it.  Now we are going to get another 90mins of turd against a better side.  Mark my words, he will not change his team and we will be just as crap in the next game except we won't get another overhead kick goal like that again. 

RaymondLin

I also don't understand this tactics of park the bus when you are ahead.  This is not the players' idea.  Foden at City, Bellingham at RM, Kane at Bayern, Saka at Arsenal etc etc, none of them play park the bus at 1-0 up football.  None of them.  

If is evident that England does this when they are ahead in the game, twice in the last 4 matches that have been doing this.  They can seemingly can hold possession when they wanted to, had 70% yesterday, right up until they scored 2 goals and then it was parking the bus.  I don't see Spain park the bus when they scored the 2nd goal...they kept pressing, and you can't tell me England players don't know how to press or the teams they play for don't press.

Southgate plays for narrow wins, he plays to keep the game tight, then hold onto it.  His Plan B don't kick in until 2 mins left to bring on a 2nd striker, if there is indeed a Plan B at all.

DrCornelius

As a Palace fan , I feel Southgate has the whiff of Hodgson about him at the moment (tactically anyway) . I think he would do well with a team without a lot of flair as he’d be tough to break down and organised but creativity and easy on the eye football seems beyond him right now

Shrews

RaymondLin said:

We were totally lucky in beating them.  There is no way you can convince me that it was his plan all along to not have any shots on target for 90mins and to get an equaliser with an overhead kick with a minute to go.

This is similar to Man United last season, they won a bunch of games...and they were lucky, like the opening game against Wolves.  They had no identity in their style of play, everything so slow and their league position reflected that.

Anyway, Southgate clearly has faith in his players to do something, clearly more faith him them than me......

I was actually a little disappointed when Bellingham scored, he bailed him out, a split second brilliance does not justify all that crap that came before it.  Now we are going to get another 90mins of turd against a better side.  Mark my words, he will not change his team and we will be just as crap in the next game except we won't get another overhead kick goal like that again. 

Yep, it will be the same boring England, but we will still win. Likely an unchanged side too, other than the forced one at the back. 

Personally I think the Swiss played their cup final against Italy and don't have the strength in depth off the bench like we do. As they fatigue, we will get stronger for a comfortable but boring 3-0.